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Post by Al on May 22, 2008 15:20:31 GMT -5
I agree that there is no evidence that a Knight of the White Mountain would be a paladin, but am also inclined to agree with the bit about psychic defence. By the same token, there is so little in cannon written about them that you can pretty much do as you want with them
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Post by Al on May 22, 2008 15:31:41 GMT -5
Hi Mearin I think I am going to go with the pathfinder - I just went over it, and it seems to suit the kind of character I am interested in for this one, a skills heavy light warrior type.
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Post by Maerin on May 22, 2008 16:50:01 GMT -5
Doomy,
For right now, yes, a Durenese Knight of the White Mountain is fine. I would start giving some thought towards what may have brought you so far from your homeland, but I can think of some ideas if you are stuck on that point.
As for the class, all I can say right now is I'll give it some thought. In the past, I have typically been of the view that the Sommerlending Knight of the Realm class worked just as well for a Knight of the White Mountain, since so many elements coincided between them. Further, I have some issues with the class that was drafted in the discussion you noted. I find it very difficult to sustain the idea that an apparently secular (non-mystical/religious/magical) Knighthood in a nation (Durenor) without any significant groups of people (or adversaries) with significant psionic powers would evolve a warrior order that masters psionic/mental defenses; while at the same time another apparently secular (non-mystical/religious/magical) Knighthood in a nation (Sommerlund) that has both groups of people AND adversaries with significant psionic powers would evolve an otherwise-quite-comparable warrior order almost entirely lacking that psychic/mental defense mastery. The addition of psychic defenses and magical resistances (and a good Will Save progression) to the KoWM class there appears to be a case of someone wanting to have their cake and eat it too, at least to an extent. I further agree that a KoWM character should have the same sorts of options that are represented in the Codes of the published Sommerlending Knight of the Realm class. So there are some design issues I would see needing to be resolved there, in any case.
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Post by Maerin on May 22, 2008 16:51:31 GMT -5
Hi Mearin I think I am going to go with the pathfinder - I just went over it, and it seems to suit the kind of character I am interested in for this one, a skills heavy light warrior type. Sounds good. I have some qualms about that class in that I think it is under-designed in comparison with the others. However, now that I know you are looking at it, I will take a look at it too and see if there are ways to improve it.
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Post by Swiftstrike on May 22, 2008 17:00:14 GMT -5
Have you seen my pm about a character idea Maerin.
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Post by Al on May 22, 2008 17:02:23 GMT -5
I agree, it is a bit underpowered in comparison to other classes - almost a nice rogue without some of the skill sets. I was hoping for more of a ranger type class, but Sommlending Border Rangers are out, what else is left? Do you know of any other d20 classes that are available online that would fit this mold?
EDIT I would argue the biggest drawback is that the class skills are not consistent with the type of character it is. It lacks climbing, acrobatics, ride, disguise, gather information and a few others that I think would be suitable for it. It also has less skill points than a Kai, 4 instead of 5, but that makes no sense - especially as the Kai's skill training should be based around the disciplines.
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Post by Maerin on May 22, 2008 17:10:40 GMT -5
General historical note here, since we are talking about a period of Magnamund history in this game that has not necessarily gotten a lot of attention in the past.
After the fact, there is a tendency to look at Gnaag's war of conquest against the Freelands as one large war/invasion. In fact, when one starts to break it down, the war (as many do) occurred in waves. This game is set sometime after the first "wave" of this overall war.
The first wave began during the events of Jungle of Horror and particularly while Lone Wolf and Lord Paido. Talestria and the Stornlands were overrun by "ordinary" Darklord armies (Drakkarim, Giaks, etc.) reinforced by long-standing allies (Ogians, Hammerlanders, etc.). Nations bordering Vassagonia were overrun by the Vassagonian army allied with the Darklords.
That wave hit its high point at the siege of of Tahou, during the events of The Cauldron of Fear, and ended with that siege. That began the second wave of the war, where the Freelands had the advantage and drove Gnaag and his allies out of much of of central Magnamund, and defeated some of Gnaag's allies. The Vassagonians lost their evil Zakhan and pulled back. Gnaag's forces were routed out of at least Anari and, out of realistic strategic considerations, I think it can be assumed Slovia as well. The Ogians were driven out of Talestria and their nation crushed by the allied Talestrias, Palmyrions, and Borese. The Hammerlanders were driven back on one front by the Eruans and Lencians, and the Borese on another. The Talestrians and Palmyrions drove surviving Darklands forces, Ogians, and Hammerlanders back to Torgar.
This game will begin right around the start of what amounts to the third major wave of the war, after Gnaag "kills" Lone Wolf and then turns things around on the forces at Torgar. Subsequently, the Freelands will find out, to their horror, that the Archlord had a few cards up his sleeve...
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Post by Maerin on May 22, 2008 17:27:07 GMT -5
Have you seen my pm about a character idea Maerin. Sorry for the delay. Enthusiasm has risen to typhoon levels. Not quite to the point of character creation yet, simply because I expect I am going to throw out a few things that will heavily effect your character class mix and such. But I'll pose a couple questions to you via PM here shortly, just to get things going.
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Post by Doomy on May 22, 2008 17:38:55 GMT -5
First - Al, the Shadakine Buccaneer ticks quite a few of the boxes you're looking for, and they're not necessarily evil-alignment (it says here). I guess some are supposed to be in the Errol Flynn swashbuckler mould. Maybe a bit too reliant on being at sea though. And now on to the birthday boy's detailed response... For right now, yes, a Durenese Knight of the White Mountain is fine. I would start giving some thought towards what may have brought you so far from your homeland, but I can think of some ideas if you are stuck on that point. Yes, this is a bit of a tricky one to justify. I was thinking the character might be essentially a knight-errant, sent away on a secret mission or possibly granted a leave of absence to pursue a personal goal which also befits the interests of his order. He could then find himself mixed up in the events of this game since he would probably feel compelled to respond to a new threat from the Darklands, even if it wasn't his main objective. A knight would seek to protect innocent lives after all - and it might even be that his personal mission could tie in with it. I have a vague idea how that might work, and can PM you if you like, or just post it here depending on how important it would be to keep this information from the other players. Go ahead, I'll be interested in seeing what you can come up with. I'm just drawn to the notion of playing an honourable fighter because it should be a relatively straightforward character, and I also tend to play "tanks" in computer RPGs. I don't want things to get too complex since I'm fairly new to this. And in response to your points about the proposed KotWM design I'd be quite happy to play either a straight Knight of the Realm or of the Shield instead, if you think the psychic stuff makes for an overpowered/implausible class.
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Post by Swiftstrike on May 22, 2008 18:05:35 GMT -5
First - Al, the Shadakine Buccaneer ticks quite a few of the boxes you're looking for, and they're not necessarily evil-alignment (it says here). I guess some are supposed to be in the Errol Flynn swashbuckler mould. Maybe a bit too reliant on being at sea though. And now on to the birthday boy's detailed response... For right now, yes, a Durenese Knight of the White Mountain is fine. I would start giving some thought towards what may have brought you so far from your homeland, but I can think of some ideas if you are stuck on that point. Yes, this is a bit of a tricky one to justify. I was thinking the character might be essentially a knight-errant, sent away on a secret mission or possibly granted a leave of absence to pursue a personal goal which also befits the interests of his order. He could then find himself mixed up in the events of this game since he would probably feel compelled to respond to a new threat from the Darklands, even if it wasn't his main objective. A knight would seek to protect innocent lives after all - and it might even be that his personal mission could tie in with it. I have a vague idea how that might work, and can PM you if you like, or just post it here depending on how important it would be to keep this information from the other players. Go ahead, I'll be interested in seeing what you can come up with. I'm just drawn to the notion of playing an honourable fighter because it should be a relatively straightforward character, and I also tend to play "tanks" in computer RPGs. I don't want things to get too complex since I'm fairly new to this. And in response to your points about the proposed KotWM design I'd be quite happy to play either a straight Knight of the Realm or of the Shield instead, if you think the psychic stuff makes for an overpowered/implausible class. Al has some experience with the buccaneer, I think mixing it with the path finder could round out a thief type or using a mix of the vagabond from signs and portents, which I'm sure somebody (cough) might have a printed copy of. I would worry to much about being new to this I'm not a massively experience rpg'er myself having played some d20 when I was young and having got only played a few lonewolf games online at the tower to get back into it. Mostly worry about what you are trying to achieve and someone else can help with the best way to do that.
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Post by Al on May 23, 2008 1:21:59 GMT -5
To paraphrase the Grinch... I have an idea, a wonderful idea, Al has an aweful wonderful idea!
Maerin,
Doomy and SS are right about the buccaneer, about it having a lot of the boxes, but being too sea reliant. I propose to tweak the class to turn it into a Woodland Ranger. Simply make all the sea based atributes woodland based. Many of the skills are based around both reputation and fighting in close areas - nothing saying a ranger would not do similar things. A few of the skills I would change - golden eye I would replace with some sort of tracking skill (tracking people in stead of gold), call it eagle eye.
I think for the most part it would be perfectly balanced, as it would in essence be the buccaneer, just tweaked a little.
What says you?
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Post by Beowuuf on May 23, 2008 1:29:54 GMT -5
Psionics - I think this is one area where the copy and paste job of the LWRPG massively undersells and changes the dynamic of the Lone Wolf world. Mental assault abilities were not battlewinners and autohits in the gamebook until you possessed high discipline additions (like kai ray), took a physical toll at higher levels, and a non-psychic but robust or magical mind could partially or fully block the attacks. Even Drakkarim possessing no apparent psychic abilities as a race could resist effects if they were Death Knights with the intense mental training
I would have no problem with a defensive and mentally reserved class like the white knights possessing psychic defense due to them working with their minds, but psychic defenses only. The magical resistance is a little bit much.
I think you can explain away the non-psychic defense in the Sommlending other classes very simply, training focus.
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Post by Beowuuf on May 23, 2008 1:38:45 GMT -5
Al, why don't you take the proposed Sommlending Ranger class and simply call it an Eruan Pathfinder? I think it has all the requisites you are looking for, does it not?
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Post by Al on May 23, 2008 1:53:38 GMT -5
Where is it located?
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Post by Beowuuf on May 23, 2008 2:42:47 GMT -5
The Forge, there is a link in the classes
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