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Post by Beowuuf on May 24, 2008 3:14:17 GMT -5
In the same vein as Al, and for the same reason, here is a barely disguised Brotherhood of the Crystal Star for use in Maerin's game. Endurance Die - as BCS Base speed - as BCS Class skills - as BCS, except Bluff becomes Gather Information ( I see this order, due to their respect for Ishir, and a straightforward order. In keeping with 'studying' Ishir, they are more passive and pushed to interract with the world, hence Gather Information is a better fit as a replacement)
Skill points - as BCS
Armour and weapons - Proficient in staff, dagger and sling. Can use small shields only. No armour.
Wizard's oath becomes Pact of Ishir. Same effects, but sworn to Ishir herself that they must not harm nor kill an innocent with the knowledge she gives. They can redeem themselves if they break it. Magical items becomes 'objects holy to ishir'
Brotherhood spells - pretty much as BCS (same spellcasting mechanics, mostly same spells and effects. See later for spell list a few changes to reflect Ishir and less combat/physical attack elements
Magical Combat - as BCS
Mystical Expertise - as BCS
Pendant - Talisman of Ishir, as BCS
Quests - as BCS, except reqiested directly by Ishir through visions/dreams at night. The Daziarn quest is replaced by a quest to any plane of existence - seek out a 'retired' being on the plane of light for a specific request, or stop a being on the plane of darkness. A quest t the daziarn might alos be required for some reason.
Skyrider - no analogy yet. Perhaps building a temple or sanctuary, and after that cost, and with an 'upkeep' requirement to help those who are there and share knowledge, you gain apprentices or npc helpers
Words of power - pretty much as BCS, again with some minor tweaks
Appointment - Mission. Ishir can request you stay with a group of people, to aid in one way or another. Same effect, except Knowledge is in History.
Otherwise, the same effect for further study.
Grand Word of Power - as BCS, see tweaks
Brotherhood spells
Counterspell, Mind Charm, Invisible Shield, Levitation, Sense Evil and Silence as BCS. Words of power and grand effects as BCS, except Dominion will have a more benign sounding name 
Lightning Hand - Hand of God
Tier I: The prescence of Ishir can manifest in many ways, as light, sound or psychic energy, and the mage can channel magic this way too. If cast on a target, it is as LH but with non-lethal damage. Anyone looking directly at the target takes 1 Endurance non-lethal damage at the brief burst per level of the caster. Note that while the effect does not do three times the damage for the three types of effect it generates (sound, light and psionic blast) a being would have to be immune to all three forms or else would take full damage.
Tier II: The enery is imbued into a weapon or object as per LH. Instead of extra damage, the weapon emits illumination equivalent to moonlight for one hour per level of the caster. This may be extinguished at any time by the weilder or the mage. While the effect lasts, the mage can 'hear' the item and be able to follow its call if needed. Any creatue of evil alignment attempting to hold or wiield the item (not just be attacked by it) takes the caster's BMD as per LH
Tier III: As LH and Tier I, the effect can leap from creature to creature within 30 feet, but inflicts the 'looking directly at the target' damage only once per creature in that time (although it can be in addition to the main effect).
Net - Rapture
Tier I: This magic invokes feelings of 'rapture' in the target area, effectively freezing the target in place, distracted from his surroundings. Area effect as Net, reflexes still used to move away from the effect (can change to Will if thought equivalent). Wisdom or Concentration used as the escape check roll. The wizard can cast this lesser form on himself, gaining +5 to concentration checks. Duration as Net
Tier II: As Net and Tier I. The effect is susceptible to psionic energy, any mental attack shatters the effect but deals psychic damage equal to the caster's BDM to all within its influence.
Tier III: As Net and Tier I, except bludgeoning damage is replaced by psychic damage. The caster can nominate non-lethal damge, but only when first casting, and this must be applied to all targets for the whole duration.
Vigour - Valour
Tier I - as Tier I Vigour
Tier II - Shieldpact. Binds the one touched to a carried shield. Beneficiary gains additional +1 AC from shield and one to0uched cannot be disarmed (shield and other weapons). Shield cannot be broken for duration while wielder has endurance. Cannot put shield down as per Vigour.
Tier III - as per Vigour, except adds +1AC instead of +2 damage.
Mend - Restore
As Mend, except flowing water is replaced by night where the moon is shining. Tier I can be cast anywhere as long as the moon is even partiall visible in the sky. Tier II the caster needs to be able to see the moon directly himself, and Tier III the caster (and recipient) must be directly in moonlight (not through windows) and be able to see the moon (cannot cure blinded companions). Failure to cast Restore removes the ability to cast it until the next night. I do not know if a time of night should be stipulated, where the DC increases if cast earlier (hence natural healing or getting rest would be affected for the caster, and receipients of Tier III)
Words/Grand words
Awareness, Dominion, Denial, Force, Motion and Restoration as per BCS
Battle - Cause - as BCS, except the with the grand effect either strength or dexterity can be nominated, a +4 initiative bonus comes with strength, and a +4 damage bonus is gained with dexterity (I'm not sure if the weakness in the lower tiers of valour as an offensive spell make up for the grand effect being better than the BCS version. Perhaps a +2 bonus instead for initiaive/damage?)
Entrapment - Thrall - as per Entrapment and Rapture, with the grand effect non-lethal or lethal damage can be swapped between aswell by ceasing and resuming the damage on individual targets
Energy - Majesty as per BCS, except the caster can nominate light, sound, psionic. For the grand effect, the power can be split equally with 4d10 each energy. This damage can instead be dropped for each part to provoke an effect (blinded, deaf, stunned). As per BCS, the caster knows which damage a creature is susceptible to.
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Post by Al on May 24, 2008 5:09:44 GMT -5
Normally I would not argue with Maerim, as his knowledge far outstrips mine, but according to the BCS details, the brotherhood is an international ogranization, and the Mage Guild of Toran is its Sommlending wing. From pg 15 of the LW RPG:
Because the many guilds all stem from the same set of core
beliefs, they form a massive union of like-minded scholars
that transcends city, nation, kingdom and liege. This
fraternity is called the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star, named
after the twin beliefs that spells are a form of crystallised
magic and that all true power comes from the stars above.
The Brotherhood of the Crystal Star is open to all with the
desire to learn magic, though many guilds charge exorbitant
fees for training.
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Post by Beowuuf on May 24, 2008 5:18:53 GMT -5
Then perhaps I can play a flat BCS after all - since if I enter Zipp's game I will swap to a Kai Lord. His thinking was probably that, after the 'death' of Lone Wolf, the brotherhood would need to focus its energies on Sommerlund
Then again, as the now first level of defence of Magnamund and Sommerlund, I guess thye should be abroad helping allies
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Post by Al on May 24, 2008 6:55:27 GMT -5
It is still up to Mearim, as his logic could be that he wants to move it away from steriotypical LW classes to explore other aspects of Magnamund, so in the end it is his call, and I can see his logic.
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Post by Agrarvyn on May 24, 2008 8:42:04 GMT -5
I quite like this Ishirian conversion, though I'd quite like to see it fully written up, rather than just as amendments to the BCS.
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Post by Beowuuf on May 24, 2008 8:46:02 GMT -5
No point if Maerin nixes the idea, I'm still in half a mind if I should commit to a game, these things all take time from an evening  |
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Post by Maerin on May 28, 2008 10:43:31 GMT -5
Al,
The LW RPG made the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star class an "international" organization for the same reasons it made the Kai an "international" organization (you will find similar wordings in the RPG for the Kai). I can only guess that the authors may have realized, on some level, the problems/limitations inherent in their class system. However, instead of making more classes, guidelines for adapting existing classes, or a set of more general classes (but not the much-reduced "NPC classes") that would be able to accept wider membership from other nations, they took the classes they had and put wording in their description to...um..."widen" them. In other words, they changed the concepts/stories/details/facts of the setting relating to those classes in order to explain (or, more to the point, justify) the mechanics they had designed and elected to use for their game (which is, in my view, a mistake when creating an RPG based on an existing setting). In every single other instance of description of the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star in gamebooks outside of the LW RPG itself, it is either indicated they are a Sommerlending-only organization (the same for Kai) or it is not indicated either way at all. The class system as presented in the RPG is, to this day, likely the game's most crippling flaw.
In cases like this one where the RPG apparently contradicts other sources, in particular the gamebooks, I will tend to rule towards the gamebooks over the RPG.
I suppose if one wants to be generous and resolve the contradiction without criticizing anyone, there are "explanations" possible. For instance, one might say that in MS5000 (the time of the RPG) the Brotherhood was international, but by 50-60 years later (the gamebooks up to the timeframe of my future game) that had international membership had effectively evaporated for some unknown reason. That is flimsy, but so are most such explanations when trying to explain away situations like this.
This particular topic illustrates very well why I really do not like "canon" discussions. They never work out well (of course, such "canon" discussions never particularly work out well in the religious context of the term "canon" either...go figure).
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Post by Maerin on May 28, 2008 10:48:04 GMT -5
Beowuuf,
I am trying to figure out what the concept of the character class might be, aside from "an international version of the Brotherhood". If that quoted text basically fits what you are shooting for, I would keep your life simpler and just stick with the Brotherhood class. If you have some other vision in mind that is distinctive enough, we might expand this into its own class, in the same fashion that Al did with the Woodland Ranger (which started out as a forest variant of the Buccaneer, but I expect to see will become likely become a class in its own right).
As soon as I make the time this week to type up a more formal set of rules, guidelines, story elements and the like this week, perhaps that will give you enough information to swing your decision one way or the other. I understand the kind of commitment I am asking for (particularly since we all experienced what that commitment meant while playing "A Twist In Time").
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Post by Al on May 28, 2008 14:32:50 GMT -5
Al, The LW RPG made the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star class an "international" organization for the same reasons it made the Kai an "international" organization (you will find similar wordings in the RPG for the Kai). I can only guess that the authors may have realized, on some level, the problems/limitations inherent in their class system. I really enjoy the LW setting, but the basic game's character classes leave a lot to be desired. The Kai is so overpowered it is munchkin, the only rouge is a pirate (work that into most gaming groups), their are no clerics (not too bad, gives the game a sense of urgency), and two are of the six classes are clearly from only one nation (Kai and Knight) while the BCS leans heavily towards it! The way they did the Kai to allow non-Sommlending Kai made it seem to me like it was Kai misbehaving themselves around the world and leaving behind little Kais. The BCS one made a lot more sense. I did not realize that in the books the BCS was described as being Sommlending, I thought it was just the Mage Guild of Toran - and I am happy to stand corrected. In saying that, they and the Knights are the easiest to superimpose on other nationalities - just some minor superficial tweaking and there you go. For example, a Knight of the White Mountain can simply be a Knight of the Realm who does not lie, mostly RPing differences, and wizards can come from anywhere, all you need to do is instead of the crystal star pendant and skyship, use something else (a ring and giant eagle, crystal ball and wizards tower, for example). Nothing that a decent GM and a non-munchkin player should have no trouble with. By the way, have you made up your mind about my Woodland Ranger yet? If you decide to go with 'nay', I am cool with that, but would like some advice on where to get a light-fighter/rouge kind of character. |
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Post by Swiftstrike on May 28, 2008 15:04:07 GMT -5
Their is already a work up for a priest of Ishir in signs and portent issue 35 you could either use that for what you were thinking of or incorperate some of the ideas to make this a more Ishir based class.
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Post by Maerin on May 28, 2008 15:16:31 GMT -5
Al, The LW RPG made the Brotherhood of the Crystal Star class an "international" organization for the same reasons it made the Kai an "international" organization (you will find similar wordings in the RPG for the Kai). I can only guess that the authors may have realized, on some level, the problems/limitations inherent in their class system. Well, I don't actually think I said "some problems/limitations". I may make occasional attempts at being diplomatic about something I really disagree with, but I am typically not THAT generous....  By the way, have you made up your mind about my Woodland Ranger yet? If you decide to go with 'nay', I am cool with that, but would like some advice on where to get a light-fighter/rouge kind of character. You don't have to worry about "nay". Sorry for not clarifying, but if it were an absolute no, I would have said something. Now, not the same as an absolute yes yet, as it is one point on a list of points that need doing. But once I get to a character creation point (in which I will post character creation rules and such), the final answer will be better defined for you.  To paraphrase Tolkien: Go not to sages for questions, for they will not only say both no and yes, they will use way too much time thinking and way too many blasted syllables to do so. |
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Post by Al on May 28, 2008 15:31:37 GMT -5
Now, not the same as an absolute yes yet, as it is one point on a list of points that need doing. But once I get to a character creation point (in which I will post character creation rules and such), the final answer will be better defined for you. . Cool! I do not want to rush you, but as I am editing the class now, any advice you have would be most welcome, as I have limited time and do not want to head in directions that you would not be happy with. Al |
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Post by Maerin on May 28, 2008 16:18:47 GMT -5
Cool! I do not want to rush you, but as I am editing the class now, any advice you have would be most welcome, as I have limited time and do not want to head in directions that you would not be happy with. Al, I probably should admit to an ulterior motive. You and Beowuuf are now doing something that was not being done before here, and that is contributing something new to the Lone Wolf gaming fandom that is quite apart from an "in-house" activity like West Watch or the various contests. Specifically, the new classes you are creating in the Forge thread. That is something I wanted to see and strongly encourage. It is something the Lone Wolf fandom (at least TotSers) were in need of, in general yes, but most especially this year. My game may only last a few months, but at least the two of you now (and hopefully a couple more yet before all is said and done) will have created something that is a permanent addition and improvement to the LW RPG in general. That is the major reason why I made that earlier statement in the Circle of Light thread last week. To paraphrase in this context: comments/changes I might make in the specific context of my game will have rule of law for that game...but comments/changes I make and offer to it here in the Forge thread will be suggestions for improvement by you for your creation, to take or leave as you will. It is for that reason that I have only made comments and suggested changes here. |
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Post by Al on May 28, 2008 16:32:49 GMT -5
If this game is as interesting as your last, I should hope it lasts much longer than a couple months!
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Post by Maerin on May 28, 2008 16:43:46 GMT -5
I should too, but I always trust in life's ability to prove me wrong. |
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