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Post by chris777 on Oct 12, 2008 12:31:37 GMT -5
In medieval times, clenliness was quite unheard of. King John was considered excessive and overly clean because he would take baths six times a year, once every other month. Those truly were gross times. I like to think of the kai as having cleanliness as one of their virtues. Of course, kai lords get really dirty and grimy going on all their adventures, so I would hope that the kai would clean themselves when they get back home. I like to imagine that Banedon has created some magical showers in the kai monastery.
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Post by zipp on Oct 12, 2008 12:42:11 GMT -5
Er... Banedon's magical showers doesn't sound like something I would want to stand under.
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Post by Doomy on Oct 12, 2008 16:06:03 GMT -5
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Post by Al on Oct 12, 2008 16:19:20 GMT -5
LOLOLOL!!!
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koreth
Full Member
The Cener Druids Rule All. Accept It.
Posts: 172
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Post by koreth on Oct 12, 2008 19:54:27 GMT -5
Ooooohhhhh man! I'm not going into THOSE showers! Bad stuff. Really bad. Koreth
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Post by Black Cat on Oct 12, 2008 23:56:28 GMT -5
I was about to make a joke about Zipp and his history with showers, but I'll just shut up... Coincidentally, seeing that video of Out Run made me think of Rad Racer on the NES, which in turn made me think of its music, composed by Nobuo Uematsu, the same guy that made the FF music. Great stuff!
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Post by chris777 on Oct 14, 2008 23:34:21 GMT -5
Well hey, lets face it, Banedon is quite a compitent wizard and I am sure he would have no problem conjuring something up that would be excellent for keeping clean and for personal hygene. After all we are talking about Banedon not Presto. With Presto, he has this magic hat that he can pull just about anything out of, but he rarely gets what he actually is trying to get. Presto will try to conjure up food, he will go, "Abra kameer, magic burgers appear!" and he will pull a live cow out of his hat.
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Post by Maerin on Oct 15, 2008 10:16:27 GMT -5
When one considers the cost and effort described for the use of Left-Handed magic in Magnamund (typically sustaining some degree of temporary hurt and/or pain, depending on which description(s) one goes with), I doubt it is magic used frivolously. Why use magic that will give you, at a minimum, a painful headache or otherwise drain finite magical reserves when a basin of water and a block of soap will work just as well...?
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Post by Bewildered Badger on Oct 16, 2008 7:15:51 GMT -5
Wasn't there an acquaintance of Banedon's who used magic to bring forth a sumptuous banquet? That to me sounds like a frivolous use of magic, especially if it does indeed hurt (although as he was not a Brother of the Crystal Star, he may well know a very different type of magic). Perhaps more powerful mages can suffer fewer ill effects? At any rate Kai Lords do seem to know the value of bathing. Quite apart from his towel-stealing visit to the hot baths of Barrakesh, Lone Wolf has the option of a room with a bath during 'Kingdoms Of Terror', although the barrel of warm water doesn't fully meet his expectations.
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Post by Samildanach on Oct 22, 2008 5:28:10 GMT -5
When one considers the cost and effort described for the use of Left-Handed magic in Magnamund (typically sustaining some degree of temporary hurt and/or pain, depending on which description(s) one goes with), I doubt it is magic used frivolously. Why use magic that will give you, at a minimum, a painful headache or otherwise drain finite magical reserves when a basin of water and a block of soap will work just as well...? Indeed. Plus, I can see the Brotherhood subscribing to the Earthsea/Roke principles of magic, i.e. use only as much magic as you have to. I have no evidence for that; it just feels appropriate.
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Post by chris777 on Oct 22, 2008 12:01:20 GMT -5
At the higher levels the use of brotherhood magic does not take as big a toll on the magician. You can see this with Lone Wolf himself. Early on in the grandmaster series, when Lone Wolf uses spells such as Lightning Hand, he loses some E.P. as a result of the toll the spell takes on him. Later on though, as Lone Wolf gets more advanced in brotherhood magic, he can cast Lightning Hand without losing any E.P. So the more advanced the magician becomes the less energy the magic takes to use. Lone Wolf is not even primarily a magician, he is first and foremost a warrior and the brotherhood magic he uses is something extra, more or less he is a hobbyist magician. As for somebody like Banedon who is first and foremost a magician and a very advanced one at that, for him to summon up a big feast, or for that matter some magical showers, it would be nothing to him. The magic would take no greater toll from Banedon than the toll that walking a few steps would take on your legs. And besides, most people have seen Dumbledore go "Let the feast begin," and make a magnificent feast appear in the banquet hall, so no doubt Banedon could do the same with showers, and it would cost him practically nothing.
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Post by Maerin on Oct 22, 2008 17:34:11 GMT -5
Lone Wolf as a Grand Master is not a really good example to cite, both because he is unique (at least at the time) and because his approach to both Left Handed magic and that of the Elder Magi may have little in common with the approaches used by other practicioners of either magic (case in point, he does not use Willpower either). Aside from assistance and basic instruction provided by Banedon and Rhimoah, there is little other evidence of how Lone Wolf found those two types of magic part of his Grand Master path. Certainly since they are "Grand Master Disciplines", their origins likely have as much or more to do with the sources of the other Disciplines as they do any sort of "outside instruction". Further, as you point out, Lone Wolf is clearly not a particularly advanced magician of either kind of magic. It seems mostly likely from all that that Kai Grand Masters represent more of an exception to the typical practice of either type of magic, be the practicioners advanced or not.
I am not saying that your reasoning is completely off-base, mind you; I am only saying Lone Wolf as a Grand Master following that path is so new and unique (at the time) in the world of Magnamund as to make him (as well as the Grand Master(s) that follow) insufficient example(s) to support your reasoning in any wider or deeper sense out of the context of the Grand Masters themselves. That Lone Wolf can use such magic without apparent cost doesn't support any wider conclusion than to conclude that Kai Grand Masters can use relatively simple magic of those types without cost.
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Post by chris777 on Oct 22, 2008 22:03:04 GMT -5
I think of Lone Wolf as having learned the Brotherhood magic as well as the Elder Magi magic as something extra that Lone Wolf decided to pick up on in addition to furthering his Kai skills. That way he could have something else, another helping hand, to help him out in his adventures. As far as learning Brotherhood magic and Elder Magi magic, when he first learns them as a grandmaster, I see Lone Wolf as no different than a first time student who has just walked through the doors of the Magician's guildhall. The only difference with Lone Wolf is his background as a kai lord, but I don't see that having much effect, if any, on his progress in the magical arts. As for using willpower, it is Shadakai magic that uses willpower not Brotherhood magic. If Lone Wolf were to use Shadakai magic he probably would use willpower but Brotherhood magic does not use willpower, that can be seen in the mini adventure where you play as Banedon and you do not use willpower to cast any of the spells. I see the Brotherhood magic that Lone Wolf uses as just something extra Lone Wolf picked up from a friend, something aside from his Kai skills. You can be a doctor and have a friend who is a lawyer, and from your friend you can learn some stuff about law although you are primarily a doctor. The same thing with Lone Wolf, he is primarily a Kai lord but he learned some stuff about Brotherhood magic from his wizard friend, Banedon.
It does stand to reason that the more advanced a Brotherhood magician becomes the less energy it requires to use spells. The same thing with somebody who is out of shape and has never ran before, if such a person were to run a mile it might practically kill them, but than lets say that person trains up and becomes a seasoned marathon runner, at that point running a mile could be a walk in a park to them. Now with Banedon being as advanced as he is, he even survived a direct assault from an evil Lone Wolf clone, conjuring up showers should be as easy as snapping his fingers. Since Lone Wolf was eventually able to hurl lightning bolts with no loss of E.P. when he wasn't as advanced as Banedon is, and I see Lone Wolf as just another student of magic who happens to be a Kai lord, it would stand to reason that Banedon, at his very powerful levels, can do all sorts of things with magic and hardly lift a finger while doing it.
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Post by zipp on Oct 26, 2008 13:36:48 GMT -5
First of all, your example of Dumbledore doesn't really stand to reason. Remember that Dumbledore isn't creating a feast, he's simply conjuring it from the kitchens immediately below the banquet hall. The fact that the food is set up exactly where it will appear however many stories above is a testament to the difficulty of conjuration. Even a great wizard like Dumbledore has to have it pre-set for him to work it.
I would agree that a grand magician like Banedon would probably not feel as much pain in his prime of magical casting as an earlier wizard, though we do have some cannon material to show otherwise. The RPG doesn't give any EP cost benefits for older or more experienced wizards. They simply have more EP to spend. And since Joe has declared the RPG cannon, we can assume that this is the way that things work (at least, until the new RPG comes out).
But ignoring this, we still have the issue that your magical showers would require a constant conjuration spell. Creating water out of thin air is not like making a magical sigil, such as the one that runs throughout Toran to protect it. It is not a constant effect. You'd have to continue the spell for as long as you wanted water to appear. Otherwise, the wizard could have just summoned a constant rainfall on the darklands until the whole thing is underwater. Anyways, any source of magic will tell you that creating things like water out of thin air is very difficult. Banedon might be able to do it for a short period of time, but to maintain a shower in the Kai Monastery he'd have to move there and take up residence and carry around a big bottle of aspirin.
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Post by Ghost Bear on Oct 26, 2008 14:05:51 GMT -5
And create even more water to wash the asprin down with!
And no, Dumbledore didn't create the feast. In fact, in the Harry Potter world, it's not possible to create food magically.
-GB
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