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Post by Maerin on Oct 26, 2008 18:51:31 GMT -5
I think of Lone Wolf as having learned the Brotherhood magic as well as the Elder Magi magic as something extra that Lone Wolf decided to pick up on in addition to furthering his Kai skills. That way he could have something else, another helping hand, to help him out in his adventures. As far as learning Brotherhood magic and Elder Magi magic, when he first learns them as a grandmaster, I see Lone Wolf as no different than a first time student who has just walked through the doors of the Magician's guildhall. Aside from the rather significant difference already mentioned, that such magic costs the spellcaster in order to use the magic. You cannot have it both ways. Either Lone Wolf is a powerful special case whose use of Left-Handed Magic and Magi-Magic can occur with no personal cost...or he is a "basic" magician and so it does not make any sense given the actual characteristics of magic in the world that he could use such magic at no cost. As for using willpower, it is Shadakai magic that uses willpower not Brotherhood magic. That is generally incorrect. Grey Star's magic was actually not Shadakine and, moreover, it is indicated in the Grey Star books that the magic of the Wytches was not even directly related to that of the Shianti. Put another way, we are offered no evidence at all that "Shadakine magic" requires Willpower at all. Now, I will grant that it is only the recent RPG that suggests what types of magic do or do not require the use of Willpower (and the use of Willpower as a element of psychic abilities as well, which is not directly supported in the gamebooks). But even if one discounts entirely that piece of evidence, the only result is the lack of virtually any other evidence at all surrouding the need for a resource for Vakeros battle-magic (which is what Magi-Magic is describe as). As a result, there is little that any form of reasoning can provide, as we are left entirely with guesswork. Needless to say, one cannot assume a convincing arguement unless one assumes agreement with the initial, unsubstantiated (and, in fairness, unsubstantiable) guesses/assumptions. It may be a good guess that a magician more advanced might be able to use lesser magic at a lesser cost, but the effect we are talking about here is not "lesser magic" according to any source one might cite. Moreover, magic in any given setting has "rules" governing what it can and cannot do, and what the costs might be for doing so. While your guess may be correct, and the rules of magic in Magnamund make things "easier" for higher experience magicians, there is no evidence I have seen (nor you have offered) to support such a guess. Therefore, the only "reasonable" assumption is that the rules as we know them right now apply universally with no exceptions made for the experience of the magician.
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Post by Maerin on Oct 26, 2008 18:54:38 GMT -5
And no, Dumbledore didn't create the feast. In fact, in the Harry Potter world, it's not possible to create food magically. And, in the end and as I mentioned in another post above, each setting has its own rules of magic and they are not necessarily interchangable. How magic works in the world of Harry Potter is demonstratably different than how it apparently works in Magnamund, even if one stays away from guesses and sticks with book sources. That makes any correlation between settings somewhere between difficult and impossible, unless it can be first demonstrated that the forms of magic in both settings actually follow the same basic "rules".
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Post by Ghost Bear on Oct 28, 2008 3:51:36 GMT -5
Exactly Maerin. I'm pretty sure I've said that myself in many other threads (as have you), but the message seems to be getting ignored. -GB
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Post by zipp on Oct 28, 2008 8:03:30 GMT -5
My point was even taking Dumbledore as a valid example of magical use, the example was flawed in that Dumbledore actually had more trouble then was being acknowledged.
Of course, I agree that you can't truly compare the two, especially given that Harry Potter's magic is based in an entirely different system.
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Post by Maerin on Oct 28, 2008 9:27:30 GMT -5
Not ignored. But sometimes good points do need repeating...
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Post by Al on Oct 28, 2008 10:32:34 GMT -5
Not ignored. But sometimes good points do need repeating... I agree. All hail Dwarfs!
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Post by chris777 on Oct 29, 2008 15:23:45 GMT -5
My point was even taking Dumbledore as a valid example of magical use, the example was flawed in that Dumbledore actually had more trouble then was being acknowledged. Of course, I agree that you can't truly compare the two, especially given that Harry Potter's magic is based in an entirely different system. Well yes, Harry Potter magic is for the most part much more puny than D&D magic or Lone Wolf magic.
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Post by haskellpaul on Nov 1, 2008 18:24:53 GMT -5
www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,887054,00.html If that source is correct, then King John only bathed 3 times a year which is twice as bad as what chris777 said!! I'd really hate to live during those times... Anyway I just gotta say that although this thread is kinda weird, its pretty darn interesting as well. There are definitely a few aspects of magic that I hadn't thought of before reading this
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Post by zipp on Nov 16, 2008 4:45:12 GMT -5
Chris is good for that. It's why we let him stick around
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Post by Al on Nov 17, 2008 7:04:56 GMT -5
This thread still makes me laugh every time I see the name
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Post by chris777 on Nov 25, 2008 14:50:48 GMT -5
Well anyway, it turns out that Hogwarts they do have magical baths for the prefects. As it is pointed out in book 4, such a bath is discovered when the golden egg needs to be opened underwater. Even though you can't really compare it to Lone Wolf, its just something to point out.
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Post by zipp on Nov 25, 2008 19:29:02 GMT -5
Well anyway, it turns out that Hogwarts they do have magical baths for the prefects. As it is pointed out in book 4, such a bath is discovered when the golden egg needs to be opened underwater. Even though you can't really compare it to Lone Wolf, its just something to point out. Actually, the baths AREN'T magical. They are fed by water from the lake, as evidenced when Myrtle describes the pipes coming out in the lake.
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Post by Maerin on Nov 25, 2008 19:32:24 GMT -5
Well, now speaking in my capacity as a practicing civil engineer, the relative implausibility of Hogwarts plumbing DOES certainly imply a certain amount of magic in effect! :-)
That said, in the example that chris777 mentions, the magic was not in the bathwater, but in the golden egg.
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Post by Ghost Bear on Nov 27, 2008 6:18:04 GMT -5
I think the bubble bath (bath foam... I haven't got a clue what you Americans would call it. The stuff that makes bathwater all foamy anyway) was probably magical though.
-GB
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Post by zipp on Nov 27, 2008 18:32:50 GMT -5
I think the bubble bath (bath foam... I haven't got a clue what you Americans would call it. The stuff that makes bathwater all foamy anyway) was probably magical though. -GB We fondly call it bubble bath here in the states.
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