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Post by Beowuuf on Jan 13, 2010 13:16:44 GMT -5
So the malice was what Simey encountered and was in the orphanage?
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Post by crysis on Jan 13, 2010 14:17:43 GMT -5
Yes. The Malice is what arrived in eshnar with a Darklord army and the General and an undead Barakka. The Malice corrupted Eshnar but her lifeforce was weak after having spent so much energy to create her army. So she latched on to the lifeforce of the people of eshnar and basically BECAME Eshnar. Then she sent out the call to her other parts.
Lady Hazelae, who was the Intelligence of the beast, responded instantly. For reasons not entirely known, she was able to convince Zipp to take her into Eshnar. Probably she had Zipp convinced that Eshnar could be purged by the power of her magic and by Senoria, though Zipp definitely didn't entirely trust Lady Hazelae. Still, Zipp, constantly trying to live up to her predecessor, agreed to go and the end result was the death of everyone in her party except for the other PCs.
Hazelae escaped from the group once in Eshnar and made her way to the Malice, where she tried to join. The process of the joining took a long time (maybe as long as two weeks, which allows for the other Eshnar story timelines and the demise of Xog), during which Zipp followed her to the center of the city, and stabbed her with Senoria, halting the joining. Before Zipp could act further, though, the Malice kililed her.
Not long after, the Power (child Hazelae) showed up and allowed the joining to be completed. However, the Power was extremely malleable to the world around it. The Chaos Master hadn't been the only one to use it as a vehicle. Dharn had unintentionally imprinted goodness and the love of a family onto the Power and this was brought into the Demon when it became whole.
The end result was like swallowing a poison. The Demon was torn apart from the inside and became the raw energy of life once again, leaving Eshnar free of its grasp, though still a ruin.
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Post by Beowuuf on Jan 13, 2010 14:34:26 GMT -5
I think I mistook how many young hazelaes were around, I had thought there were three young girls - one that went to kaag, one that went to dharn in holmgard, and one simey encountered in durenor. And that adult Hazelae made four.
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Post by crysis on Jan 13, 2010 16:51:08 GMT -5
Well, there's always a possibility of a fourth Hazelae, some remnant of the demoness' power that's still wandering Magnamund.
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Post by Simey on Jan 13, 2010 20:55:38 GMT -5
That splitting of Hazelae really is a fascinating concept that I never really properly appreciated. I think the story was spread over such a long time it was difficult to keep track.
I'm afraid that Simey's quickly bundling that Hazelae off into an orphanage really wasn't my finest hour. I kind of recall just having no idea where to go with that and trying to just shove it away. Then I see the brilliance with which Dharn weaves his Hazelae into his story and it makes me feel a bit dumb. Especially as my stuff really lost its way for a good while after that.
But chapter planning: I will, if I may, add another post or two to the current chapter - I'll probably get something done later today, going ice skating having - with a nice touch of irony - been postponed by the snowy, icy weather. S & A have stuff to sort out that would get done before the scouting force leaves for Eshnar, I'd think.
I think tying up loose ends - at least temporarily - combined with the gathering of the force, everyone receiving their various orders from their various superiors and all that, would be the most sensible way to round this chapter off. Then the new one - and the new book? - can immediately get down to the business of everyone setting off towards Eshnar, whereupon they perhaps come across certain other people.
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Post by crysis on Jan 13, 2010 21:04:02 GMT -5
I could write another post as Sera Veshin. After that, I'm pretty much going to see how the first few posts of the new chapter develop before I decide where she needs to be at.
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Post by eviltb on Jan 14, 2010 3:54:37 GMT -5
So you could say that part of Hazelae is now part of the CM? If there is a fourth wondering around somewhere.... ooo Ive had an idea!
So you've had 3 Hazelaes; Malice, Intelligence, Power.... for a fourth you could have Compassion. It may be the smallest but it could turn out to be the most powerful. If Hazelae is now part of the CM, perhaps the power of Compassion is the only thing that can stop it.....
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Post by Beowuuf on Jan 14, 2010 7:53:58 GMT -5
Hmm, the toruble with 'compassion' as the thing to fight the Chaosmaster is that it isn't a theme built into either the canon previously nor chaos as a concept. And of course we've already just killed one big bag with love!
I'm not saying it wouldn't work, just saying the theme should be built into the CM as we actually get to know him, and there should be some way of tying that into what we have previously known of him - a representation of chaos and a trickster. Obviously the hook about serena and the beholder is already there if that can be twisted somewhat to shed new light on his motives...
Funny to see the true 'canon' of Hazelale, as it reminds me the answers I'd starting going for when we were trying ot end it ourselves. From most of the descriptions, these designations must have been hinted at because mine were similar. I think that the older Hazelae was Hazelae, the demon pushed into a human form. So yes, the Intelligence. The Hazelae that was moving around and went to Kaag and ended up in the middle of Eshnar was her Power. I had it exist as a formles independant afterwards, burrowing into Eshnar so it would always be a scary undead town. It ended up Dharn's Hazelae was her Mortality, just as you could say the Darklords had to be 'mortal' to be allowed into Aon. Without it, Hazelae would be instantly banished back to being alone in whatever alternate dimension she had existed in. So she had actually called everyone who could hurt her together while still invulnerable to bump them off, but was calling Dharn's HAzelae back since of course if that Hazelae died she would be rejected. I had it this HAzelae living with Dharn after (hadn't realised she would die) because she gained her own identity thanks to Dharn and his love, and so made a choice to not leave him.
If I recall, the third Hazelae was the shackle of Balance, the other thing she had to take on to be in Aon (and hence why it was disregarded for so long). When the real Hazelae died, that shackle was still around, and the embodiment of balance. And as had been hinted at before with the old WW stuff, Balance could jsu tas easily be to crush good as evil to keep Aon alive. And since the pendulum was swinging so much these days, I think I had a sort of fundamentalist 'Law' attitude to her - that she'd wipe out everything good and evil so that balance was maintained. Oh, that's right, I had the blood plague mutate in Eshnar to be an undead plague (I think I hinted this had been part of Hazelae's plan) and so you had that plague trapped in Eshnar, under Barraka's command, against this Balance - whom of course had the original Laughing plague that froze undead, as a hint at it's long term machinations.
I'd almost forgot I'd written that end to work towards!
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Post by Beowuuf on Jan 14, 2010 8:04:48 GMT -5
Getting back on topic! Good point, of course others need to finish, but since BC isnt joining us for the new book I meant lets not start a new one until he finishes his bit. ETB wont be coming back until the new book. His time in the Daziarn will partially explain how the CM came into Magnamund, so I think that will be more relevant in the new book then adding it onto the end of the first. The same with anything major about the CM itself. I can tell you that for the new book, the CM will have completely abandoned Eshnar and moved exclusivly to V'Ka. I see Eshnar as a ghost town, completely devoid of anything. So any scout parties going to Eshnar to look for Xog will find nothing, which could put the recent testament at the MKC in doubt. If ETB the character is the first thing to be posted in the new book, it wil detail his time in the Daziarn. I will then probably follow it up with a post about the CM and what its doing in V'Ka. EDIT - actually when I say nothing, there will be lots and lots to find in Eshnar, mostly corpses; giak, gourgaz, Barraka, the General and yes, the corpse of Xog. So there will be something to find, however the cause of all this death is still unknown. Should those scout parties venture south to V'Ka though..... I said: So I guess the things we need to answer: 1) Who is posting before the end of this chapter 2) Who is posting the last post, and how is the chapter being ended? 3) What form of 'story so far...' are we posting for the next book? 4) Who is actually posting to start with - it sounds like eviltb might be the best person to start 5) Who else is actually posting in the starting posts? Zipp is playing a wait and see, and we have dropped Dharn and BC. 6) Is this becoming just a story thread, or is it still a 'play your character' thread. Having events from a personal perspective, and having a character that was yours has seemed to work so far. Or do we want to, for example, let me have a set of posts that are nothing but moving eviltb and CM, as long as eviltb agreed with my take on his created character?
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Post by Simey on Jan 14, 2010 11:03:45 GMT -5
Wow! Some equally cool Hazelae/Eshnar alternatives there. I rather think we could still use the bit about part of Hazelae having burrowed into the very essence of the town making it a dead town, or at least having an aura about it that dissuaded people from resettlement, and maybe had those venturing there having weird ghostly experiences. So I guess the things we need to answer: 1) Who is posting before the end of this chapter I'll want to do one or two, hopefully starting today. I'm pressing ETB to maybe expand upon his Daziarn time just a little - dunno if that might make him want to post before the end of the book? ;D Was there to be some more father and son stuff for Beowuuf? Depends what the last post is about. If it's the scouting force assembled and ready to depart Holmgard then I'd say you, 'cause you'd describe it and make it feel important and inspirational brilliantly! Actually, you should totally do that anyway, even if it's not the last post. If ETB can be persuaded to dip his toes in this chapter once or twice more (and if tell me shut up about this if you want, ETB! ;D) then the first few seconds of his arrival back on Magnamund strike me as a great way to finish. I'd say as short as possible. Everyone's backstories should be super-condensed to the bare essentials. For example, Simey is the KotWM who told the MKC that Darklord Xog had returned in Eshnar. Nothing else about Simey has any immediate relevance, so should not be included, I'd say. If I ever hark back to earlier stuff, it should be up to me then to either add a bit of extra information in the same post to make such a reference make sense, or decide that it doesn't matter if it fully makes sense at the time. Agreed! Erm, yeah 0 if Dharn's not back by the time we go, it could just be three of us then....? Personally, whilst I might occasionally stray outside my character - and I don't think there's any harm in us using each other's characters a little when they're in direct interaction with each other - I would generally write only about Simey and those around him, that typically being Armadalus. I agree that the personal perspective approach has worked well so far and doesn't need fixing. I'd rather find out what an army is up to through what a specific few characters hear and experience, rather than having an all-seeing narrator that can describe all events. But that might just be me.
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Post by crysis on Jan 14, 2010 12:32:48 GMT -5
I'll be making more comments later as I get a chance to read in more detail (on a time crunch right now) but I wanted to say that I think we should avoid the Hazelae-Chaos Master connection, mostly because we just did that with Hazelae poisoning her mother with her compassion for Dharn. Also I'd like to see a baddie without any weaknesses for the moment, someone to really give us pause as writers when we approach him.
If people want to keep around Hazelae, I do think there was one little girl that Simey left in Durenor who could easily show up at any time we want her. I left her open as a wild card.
As for my waiting game, note that I'm not planning on waiting LONG, I just don't think Sera is the appropriate character to open a chapter with because, as of yet, she has no motive or direction beyond basic survival.
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Post by eviltb on Jan 14, 2010 12:50:39 GMT -5
No probs, it was just an idea, but yea i like the idea of the CM not having ANY sort of weakness yet.
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Post by crysis on Jan 14, 2010 14:20:02 GMT -5
I wanted to suggest something a little different for next chapter. I like the general idea of having the Chaos Master appear and everything, but as I was thinking about what we're doing, I realized we're actually making a mistake in our approach. By tying the events of next chapter immediately to those of this and past chapters, we really aren't starting a new West Watch but just another new chapter that's a bit more planned out.
To that end, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be best to continue this chapter for a little longer, ending with the destruction of the Knight's army.
And then, when we start book 2, we could say some time has passed, maybe three or five years. Characters could be at different places in Magnamund, we could allow for new writers to come in, and then we could have a Chaos Master event that's not so directly tied to what has come before. It seems to me that's the only way we're going to truly begin a new book of the WW.
Because I think the intention of writing something like the CM was to have an event that affected all of Magnamund, not just an area over by Eshnar. That way, if a dwarf wanted to start writing a story about something going on in Bor, he could still connect it to the CM plot. Similarly, if Evil TB wanted to go on a daziarn journey, he could do so while connecting the plot back to CM. Sera Veshin could meet up with Simey in Sommerlund and they could have a CM related event going on there, too.
That way, we preserve the usual WW style, which lets people write their own characters and stories, but we tie them to one general story. As per our discussion weeks ago when we conceived of this plan.
Thoughts?
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Post by Simey on Jan 14, 2010 14:23:00 GMT -5
By the way, all I remember of the Chaos Master is that in The Prisoners of Time he's a big, melty heap of a monster. Does he reappear in later books and have his character fleshed out at all? 'Cause comments are being made that make me think I've missed something somewhere.
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Post by Beowuuf on Jan 14, 2010 15:06:04 GMT -5
Grey Star you meet the Chaos Master in his domain, and he's much more the trickster - you also meet someone whom made a bargin with him.
Anyway, I had thought the idea was not to reset the WW, that was one of the ideas not taken. I had thought the idea was to create a joint story that needed no previous knowledge of the WW or the previous chapters, and that everyone could particilate in - new or old. The complete reset and the 15 years in the future (with other people writing in the past if they wanted to continue the old WW) were the rejected ideas?
I think the point was not to completely disconnect our characters (those of us carrying characters across) but just to - as most chapters should have - a finish so your character doens't have any baggage. It's a richer story if you read and invest in the old stories, but not necessary to read the new stuff.
So it's interestign to know where Sera came from, why Xog was involved, how the NAK came about, etc, but not ncesessary to enjoy the story.
Hence the reason not to start the new chapter the second BC posted, and why alot of us wanted ot post a few last posts to clear up anything that might otherwise carry across.
It seems if we put any of the new CM story in this last chapter, we aren't disconnecting and automatically meaning you need to know something about the previous chapter. Wheras if the book starts with the army, and it getting destroyed, it's as if we started at book 1 and are writing an intriguing prologue that is putting you right into the start of the story, in a way that's easy to grast (joint knight army, commander you suspect would be doomed)
Jump far ahead, and I think you will find we'll all be a little disconnected to our characters if we are continuing ones from the past, and also we'll be making the mistake of forcing ourselves to shove 5 years of history into the start of the story everytime we write our characters interacting.
I mean if you really still want the time jump, then lets split the WW, have this joint story combined villain as a new story set x years in the future, and give new writers a choice to join there or join the old one. Put it sufficiently far in the future and I can pick up with Kamlyn the Kai Lord when he has grown up, and yet I can still run Beowuuf in the present and have him explore his story.
So I guess another question is 0) when is this being set, and is it a direct continuation of the WW, or it's own spin off thing?
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