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Post by Black Cat on Nov 11, 2008 12:25:25 GMT -5
Yes, that's what I meant: the Drakkarim race is a different human species.
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Post by zorkaan on Nov 12, 2008 5:50:32 GMT -5
At least a species originating from Magnamund, not alien like the Shianti.
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Post by zorkaan on Nov 12, 2008 5:58:12 GMT -5
I have nearly completed the reading of Glory and Greed and I am also very satisfied!
This book is maybe the most original story ever published in Magnamund World!
1) For the first time, an other Age of Magnamund is presented, I has hoped for that for years. So Age of Old Kingdoms is not only the Age of the Great Plague, it is also the Age of the fall of Telchoi Empire. And events of Age of War are also cited!
2) We also discover a totally different atmosphere from the ones that we knew in Magnamund.
It is due to the land of Telchos, presented during two periods, in Age of Old Kingdoms and in present. The city of Avan-Telchoi, with its Pillars of Dawn, is impressive! The way of life of extant Telchoi is also very surprising, even if we heard about it from the RPG. The constant fight between male and female in Telchoi society is funny (Tomaris is an hero! lol)
3) The storyline is far different from other Lone wolf books and gamebooks. The heros are humans without supra-powers, and they fight against something they don't understand. Political and psychological manipulations of the Agarashi Demonlord Shoongath (A contender to Dark Sidious) are delightful! But the story is also scaring, with this dream-invader demon...
4) The idea of the Night Well and of the true source of its power is very exciting! Light and Darkness mixed together (I can't spoil anymore)!?
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Post by Black Cat on Nov 12, 2008 12:25:42 GMT -5
As for me, since I'm still in the first few chapters of The Dragons of Lencia, I can say that I pretty much enjoy it so far. I seriously hope that the next novels will be published soon since I don't want to wait to long or otherwise my excitement will wane.
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Post by zorkaan on Nov 12, 2008 13:43:52 GMT -5
You're right! Mongoose can't let us like that. Both novels settle so terrible things that I can't wait for the sequels!
Enjoy your reading (I have finished Glory and Greed 10 minutes ago, and I have now to wait...)
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Post by Black Cat on Nov 17, 2008 17:36:37 GMT -5
Here, I'll repeat what I have about this novel on the Mongoose Board:
Finished it yesterday. Loved it very much. However, I'm just a little bit disappointed that so many of the main characters are killed in this book. Most of these characters could have deserved IMO to live longer simply to see how their relations with other characters evolve through the events.
**SPOILER**
For example, the competition between White Fox and Stone Hawk through the events could have been more developped before WF gets killed. The relationship between Ranghor and Tyco was also an interesting one that should have been kept for the remainding books.
Other than that, that was a fun read and I hope that the next book, The Shadow & the Skull, gets published very soon.
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Post by zorkaan on Nov 17, 2008 17:57:12 GMT -5
Totally OK for the relationship Tyco-Ranghor! It is a great loss (also for the Warmarshall I think).
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Post by Aguila Saber on Dec 13, 2008 14:59:07 GMT -5
1) For the first time, an other Age of Magnamund is presented, I has hoped for that for years. So Age of Old Kingdoms is not only the Age of the Great Plague, it is also the Age of the fall of Telchoi Empire. And events of Age of War are also cited! Actually I think the events takes place in MS 2850, rather than in 2850 MS. At least that's what the interview we had with Agust Hahn indicated. Any real proof of this in the book there is not. The only dating in it says: -2849 MS, which is frustrating since it is not the proper way to date. Years before creation of Moonstone has the year before MS and years after has the year after MS. Here however there is a minus sign. 2) We also discover a totally different atmosphere from the ones that we knew in Magnamund.
It is due to the land of Telchos, presented during two periods, in Age of Old Kingdoms and in present. The city of Avan-Telchoi, with its Pillars of Dawn, is impressive! The way of life of extant Telchoi is also very surprising, even if we heard about it from the RPG. The constant fight between male and female in Telchoi society is funny (Tomaris is an hero! lol) Here too there is a lot of more gaps opened than what is filled in. Before Lore was something like this: During Age of the Eternal Night: Telchos leaders (Wise Ones) made a bargain with Agarash the Damned which caused all minerals to surface and destroy the land. As a result of their foolishness the Wise Ones were disposed of and the nation became known as Telchos (Telchoi == fool). A council of women took their place, and their magic replaced the magic of the Wise Ones. This is not the disaster which is described in the book. The old Telchos which is described in the Book does not match what existed after the fall of the Wise Ones. Therefore it has to be assumed that over the millenia, the Telcharim: - Reverted to a patriarchic rule. - The followers of Ishir lost their power and they became overall powerless while the followers of Kai (Teltan) gained in power. - The Wise Ones - The Book describes a "New Golden Age". This I can't even start to guess why. The land was ruined beyond recovery. I guess somehow the Telchoi must have been able to reclaim some of their runied lands over the milennia, perhaps they received help from the Herbwardens or the Elder Magi. The aduacity of this proclamation and that it de facto fooled the population is quite surprising. (When will the Telchoi ever learn.) - The Telchoi has been fooled by the forces of evil, not once but at least twice. - Telchos has been ruined not once, but twice. After both the disasters the nation has received a matriarchic soul magic based rule. As for the final note. There is some very interesting revelations in this book. They are of the type that I think they will have to have come from Joe Dever himself. |
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Post by zorkaan on Dec 14, 2008 9:20:26 GMT -5
Actually I think the events takes place in MS 2850, rather than in 2850 MS. At least that's what the interview we had with Agust Hahn indicated. Any real proof of this in the book there is not. The only dating in it says: -2849 MS, which is frustrating since it is not the proper way to date. Years before creation of Moonstone has the year before MS and years after has the year after MS. Here however there is a minus sign. Ok but even if it is not the proper way to date, -2849 MS is very clear. Nevertheless, some parts of the books describing Magnamund (what Telchoi thinks that the rest of the world is) do not plead so that the story takes place during the Golden age of Shiantis (MS 2849): _ We understand in Glory and Greed that Avan-Telchos rules an empire which is going until far in the north, including even frozen islands. To my mind it is a coastal empire, with different city-states and some inner parts such as Rikanos. None of them corresponds to the surrounding countries of the Telchos during Golden Age of Shiantis. I remember that during Golden Age, Lencia has existed since MS 1007, Cincoria since MS 1199 from Kasland, Klarnos since 1309, Lunarlia and Siyen since MS 1366. Neither Klarnos, nor Cincoria, nor Kasland, nor Lencia (with frozen Islands such as Azgad Island) are presented, whereas they should have been parts of the Telchoi empire. In MS In MS 2591 the Drakkarim invaded northern Lencia. So many events in western Magnamund could'nt have occured under a Telchoi Empire. _ It is written that Avan-Telchos has been build over the ruins of a temple of the Sun God, which was destroyed during a great battle of Light and Darkness: I suppose this battle occured before 3849 MS since the city has existed for around one thousand years, which would replace it during Age of War (no problem to find a fight against Light and Evil...) _ If it occured during the Golden Age of Shianti, I am amazed that no Shianti are involved in the politic of such a powerful magical empire. These abover are no proves (of course), but I do think it is dated from Age of Old Kingdoms, from which we know nothing. A problem: if we are during the Old Kingdoms Age, where are the Elder Magi? I suppose they ruled the Central Magnamund (somewhere in Lunarlia, Danarg, Eru, cf LW8,11,23) but not the western coastal area. During Age of the Eternal Night: Telchos leaders (Wise Ones) made a bargain with Agarash the Damned which caused all minerals to surface and destroy the land. As a result of their foolishness the Wise Ones were disposed of and the nation became known as Telchos (Telchoi == fool). A council of women took their place, and their magic replaced the magic of the Wise Ones. This is not the disaster which is described in the book. In fact, I do think that once again, the information in the Mongoose RPG is wrong. In Magnamund compagnon: "The early arrival of the Telcharim places them among the peoples of the Old Kingdoms" So no Telchoi did exist during Age of Eternal Night... I suppose that the oldest Telchoi are those who founded Avan-Telchos in Glory and Greed. Nevertheless, Kayia discovers that the land in the East of Avan-Telchoi, which will become the current Telchos, are already a desert. Because of Agarash? It seems not to be a malevolent desert as Naaros, Taklakot and the Darklands... Therefore it has to be assumed that over the millenia, the Telcharim: - Reverted to a patriarchic rule. - The followers of Ishir lost their power and they became overall powerless while the followers of Kai (Teltan) gained in power. Once again I think it demonstrates that the RPG's text about Telchos is false... Or it describes a rough sum up of what happened in Glory and Greed: a (involontary) pact with Agarashi (Shoongath) that lead to the destruction of a civilisation and to the emergence of a new matriarchal society... The Book describes a "New Golden Age". This I can't even start to guess why. The land was ruined beyond recovery. I guess somehow the Telchoi must have been able to reclaim some of their runied lands over the milennia, perhaps they received help from the Herbwardens or the Elder Magi. The aduacity of this proclamation and that it de facto fooled the population is quite surprising. (When will the Telchoi ever learn.) The novel indicates that a great battle occured in Age of War (if my hypothese of timeline is exact): so may be the previous Telchoi country was destroyed. But according to Magnamund Compagnon, they were not the same race. As for the final note. There is some very interesting revelations in this book. They are of the type that I think they will have to have come from Joe Dever himself. I hope too! They're may be very important for the book 29 to 32... |
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Post by Aguila Saber on Dec 14, 2008 14:37:36 GMT -5
About the geograhical extension of Telchos:
The old history of the Ancient Ones and the mountains around the nation agree on this. On the continent of Sothern Magnamund Telchos is and has always had natural borders.
The Islands could refer to islands off the map to the west of the nation.
The Golden Age which is proclaimed in the Book has nothing at all to do with the Golden Age of the Shianti. The Golden Age of the Shianti is directly tied to the creation of the Moonstone. In the book the Telchoi leader claims a Golden Age for his own country on false premises.
Telchos is a fairly large nation. It is enclosed within mountains but the actual area within the mountains is quite big.
In MS 2900 there is no room for expansion on the mainland continent. In 2900 MS I'd say it is doubtful but not impossible. The land at that time was inhabited by Drodarin races and the Elder magi, since this is before the Great Plague which was unleashed by the Ceners.
The dating of around MS 2900 is very, very close to the Exodus of the Shianti. It is for instance after the Darkkarim invasion.
The nation of Telchos has always been isolated due to natural barriers. This means that contact with both Elder Magi and the Shianti would be very limited.
I tend to agree with you about Mongoose RPG book about the Old Kingdoms. In order for the Telcharim to be able to bargain with Agarash, they would have to be in Magnamund during the Age of the Eternal Night.
I tend to believe that Old Kingdom is a term used for any Kingdom or nation which existed in the Old Kingdoms or before, since there are similar mentions about the ancient Ixians, who per force had to exist during the Age of Eternal Night as well, and they did not live to see the Age of the Old Kingdoms start.
The desert is created by the bargain with Agarash. What is more surprising is that the Telchoi managed to reclaim some of the lost land over the milennia.
The Agarashi horde in the book turned the rest of Telchos into a desert/wasteland, although it seems the Telchoi managed to keep the Verduran coast safe from the Agarashi hordes.
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Post by zorkaan on Dec 14, 2008 18:41:15 GMT -5
About the geograhical extension of Telchos: The old history of the Ancient Ones and the mountains around the nation agree on this. On the continent of Sothern Magnamund Telchos is and has always had natural borders. The Islands could refer to islands off the map to the west of the nation. Ok for the islands, we don't where they're located... But if they're frozen, it's amazing that they share the same latitude with Telchos (even if Telchos's desert is may be an artificiel one due to a cataclysm, it is located at the same latitude as the Great sadi Desert). According to the Magnamund Compagnon, "unlike their contemporaries, the Telcharim chose not to expand their frontiers. The land barriers that surround the land of Telchos deterred outsiders from prying into their affairs, and so enabled their culture to develop in isolation from the rest of Magnamund". I do think that Magnamund Compagnon is speaking of the survivors of Glory and Greed and does not refer to the people who created Avan-Telchoi. Would it be possible that Telchos and Avan-Telchoi are two distincts things? As far as I'm concerned, in Glory and Greed Avan-Telchoi is never called Telchos... So may be Avan-Telchoi could expand... The Golden Age which is proclaimed in the Book has nothing at all to do with the Golden Age of the Shianti. The Golden Age of the Shianti is directly tied to the creation of the Moonstone. In the book the Telchoi leader claims a Golden Age for his own country on false premises. I totally agree with you. (This point could indicate that the story of Glory and Greed doesn't occur during the Golden Age of Shianti. I know it's easy to say that  ) In MS 2900 there is no room for expansion on the mainland continent. In 2900 MS I'd say it is doubtful but not impossible. The land at that time was inhabited by Drodarin races and the Elder magi, since this is before the Great Plague which was unleashed by the Ceners. The dating of around MS 2900 is very, very close to the Exodus of the Shianti. It is for instance after the Darkkarim invasion. We learn in The Hero of Mynuit that the Elder Magi were ruling Central Magnamund (temples of them can be found in the Lunarlian Plain). The previous lands of the Drodarins are unknown, they may live in the territories of the Elder Magi (I suppose that the Elder Magi were not very numerous, and that they could have lived with Drodarins in the same countries. That could explain why the Great Plague destroyer both Elder Magi and Drodarins). So the western coast of Magnamund was may be free, may be for the Avan Telchoi Empire. I suppose Telcharim who survived the cataclysm in Avan-Telchoi survived also the Great Plague because of their isolation, as well as they were later isolated from the Herbalish and the Shianti. Nevertheless, Glory and Greed truly occured during the Age of Old Kingdoms, I can't explain why the Elder Magi were not more involved in the politics of the Empire. I tend to believe that Old Kingdom is a term used for any Kingdom or nation which existed in the Old Kingdoms or before, since there are similar mentions about the ancient Ixians, who per force had to exist during the Age of Eternal Night as well, and they did not live to see the Age of the Old Kingdoms start. I agree with you, the case of Ixia perfectly illustrates that point. Xiin, Rann, Sawathat and Carsas could be also such Old Kingdoms... The desert is created by the bargain with Agarash. What is more surprising is that the Telchoi managed to reclaim some of the lost land over the milennia. The Agarashi horde in the book turned the rest of Telchos into a desert/wasteland, although it seems the Telchoi managed to keep the Verduran coast safe from the Agarashi hordes. I am not sure about that. In the book, the desert found by the survivors does not seem to be recent or articificial. It does not seem to be a result of the action of Agarashi too. I tend to think that in the book the Agarashi only destroyed the humans and their civilisation. Could this desert be just natural (Telchos desert seems to Kalahari desert in Africa), or be related to an older cataclysm? _ The desert that the survivors find is beyond the Farshan Mountains, and is not a part of the former Empire of Avan-Telchoi. (this could indicate that Avan-Telchoi was just a coastal empire which expanded on fertile countries on north and south, but not in the desert). _ The survivors did not know what they would find beyond the Farshan Mountains. I am sceptical that even the Agarashi could turn a land so quickly not into a devastated waste, but into a sea of sand as described in the text (the Telchos desert seems to be a natural one). |
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koreth
Full Member
The Cener Druids Rule All. Accept It.
Posts: 172
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Post by koreth on Dec 23, 2008 17:41:45 GMT -5
I'm replying mostly to just maintain my assertion that I am alive in LW. The move is pretty much done, so now dealing with the collateral damage of bills and where to put everything.
But anyway, so far, I like Dragons of Lencia much better than Glory & Greed. DOL had a much more gritty and real feel that drew me in, even if it was slow getting started.
G&G just hasn't really drawn me in. The whole wimpy man thing going on just doesn't get it for me. Why don't the men just escape out of the desert and just leave the insanity behind? I guess I'll just have to read more.
But hey, it's great to have a Magnamund novel in my hands just the same !
Happy Holidays !
Koreth
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Post by Aguila Saber on Dec 23, 2008 18:30:29 GMT -5
I'm overall undecided.
I guess story-wise and character wise I'd say Dragons of Lencia is the better Book. There are also far too many rather simple spelling and grammar mistakes towards the end of Glory and Greed. Glory and Greed adds a lot of new things to the picture but there are many more blanks to fill in after the book than before it.
Dragons of Lencia has one thing I do not like.
Nations/People are attacked through their strong points and they are made too look weak, even though they were attacked in an area where they are supposed to excel.
There are two main examples of this. The Telchos runners and the Lencian marine defence.
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koreth
Full Member
The Cener Druids Rule All. Accept It.
Posts: 172
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Post by koreth on Dec 26, 2008 11:18:45 GMT -5
Yes, I do have to agree with you. The Lencian marines were wiped out too easilly, and I guess that fool Kydar should not have grouped all his marines into the same barracks so close together to get wiped out by a couple of cannon blasts.
I wouldn't have thought that Lencia would have only one line of coastal defense. Once past the coast, the Drakkarim had free reign to cross the plains. I was expecting something more like...Switzerland...where every town, road, and hill houses a bunker or some sort of defense carefully hidden away.
I was interetsed in how the Kai got onto the deck of the Ironclad in the first place, but no details of that. One area of difficulty I see is where a Magnakai is being held back by three Kai trainees. I'm not sure that the three trainees could do the feats that the Magnakai trainer could do...like sneak into an enemy camp undetected or onto an ironclad.
Plot devices...
But the Magnamund novels are still a good read. And I'm still working on G&G. Just having a harder time getting into it. Just not as connected to the central characters.
Enjoy the Holidays!
Koreth
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fordy
New Member
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Post by fordy on Dec 28, 2008 6:11:16 GMT -5
SPOILERS: The Lencian navy and most of its army was mustered in the two main Lencian ports in preparation for the coming crusade. Once that crusade was called off (after King Telnac was told of the coming Agarashi invasion) the armies stood down, preparing to move south, thus allowing Ranghor's ironclads to attack the ships in port, a form of attack mirrored in quite a lot of real-life naval history. Add to that the ironclad bombardment of the ports before their akataz-led attack, the Lencians didn't stand a chance.
As for the fledgling Kai - well they are all aspirants, which is about the same level of skill Lone Wolf has by book 2 of the LW series, and he's pretty tough in that. At least I'm sure he could scale the side of an ironclad if he wanted.
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