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Post by Slavemaster on Jun 6, 2008 14:00:16 GMT -5
Oh, one more thing just to confuse things a bit more: Did you say that the warrior facing the bhanarian/lissanian warrior in the MC was from Chai? Because in my copy of MC, it says he is an archer of mother Chow-loon - in other words, a Shadakine
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Post by Maerin on Jun 6, 2008 17:26:57 GMT -5
Maerin laughs!
You are correct. Now that really does muddy the waters, and that also provides a more generally logical arguement for relabeling the Bhanarian to be a Lissanian. It does require accepting the assumption that what we are seeing in that artwork is a "real" face-to-face confrontation between two warriors. On that latter point, I will not take any side on the assumption, because neither the above assumption nor its immediate contrary assumption is particularly "more" circumstantially valid. Iin other words, while it seems probable that a Lissanian could hypothetically confront an Andui warrior in one of the battles fought to establish the Shadakine Empire, the precise confrontation being depicted is highly improbable (what one might call "artistic liscense", at which point nearly any ethnic interpretation of the dark-skinned warrior, Lissanian or Bhanarian becomes equally valid...no more, no less).
All that now begs a question reminiscent of the one that started this discussion thread. If we assume that Tianese ethnicity are Chinese/oriental-looking in facial structural and complexion, and we accept the Magnamund Companion reference that indicates that the Chai are of the Mythenish ethnicity (and therefore also Chinese/oriental-looking in facial structural and complexion), and finally consider the migration map showing the people who migrated into this overall region of Southern Magnamund. If we consider all these pieces, the question is, irrespective of whether one accepts the picture in Magnamund Companion as Bhanarian or Lissanian, what ethnicity does that warrior in fact come from and what introduced that ethnicity into Southern Magnamund? This seems a worthwhile topic because, whether Lissanian or Bhanarian, the implication is of a rather odd, small "enclave" of people with unique and fairly dramatic ethnic features. In a quick study of the rest of the overall "peoples" of both continents, the only other such unique human (disregarding Drodarin and Elder Magi races) enclave that appears to exist is the Telchoi. Telchos is geographically isolated from the rest of the continent, and is therefore "friendly" to such an enclave. Neither Bhanar nor Lissan are at all that geographically isolated.
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Post by Black Cat on Jun 7, 2008 10:02:04 GMT -5
It's entirely possible that the pictures represent two different castes of warrior. After all, again to keep with the illustrations of Bhanarians in more books than just one, we do see variations in style and dress...in some cases fairly significant ones, Black Cat, if you wish to focus on just that as your point in a disconnect from the post discussion thread immediately previous. I won't try argue with you, because I seriously feel that it would be a waste of time and energy. I'll simply quote here what outspaced just told me about the change: If you don't agree with this (that they are three books with oriental-type Bhanarian only one instance of a dark-skinned warrior listed as a Bhanarian, which then supposed that there was an error in the MC just like there was a flag missing on the map of book 5), then go argue with them. Otherwise, I'll put an end to this discussion right away as some people PMed me to tell how they didn't really liked how the conversation is turning out. So, to avoid further problem for this community: You're right, I'm wrong. Now, we can continue the conversation about skin color for WildHare.
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Post by Aguila Saber on Jun 7, 2008 11:39:25 GMT -5
We should not try to attribute earth cultures to cultures Magnamund at all.
At best the likeness will be superficial, at worst you will draw the wrong line of conclusions about the people living there.
As for black races, the Masbate race is black.
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Post by Slavemaster on Jun 7, 2008 13:46:40 GMT -5
Yes, I knew from the beginning that this thread might become, well, hot. Discussing ethnicity, even for a fictional world, is always a minefield. We should all try to tread carefully.
However, did Wildhare mean if there are any people on Magnamund who are "black" in our, real-life sense of the word? That is actually a bit tricky... You could take a person from Sommerlund and one from Chai and put him on the streets of our own real world, and they can pass for a european and an asian. But I have a bit of a hard time finding anyone from Magnamund who could be transferred to our world and be taken for an african. And this, I have a feeling, was what Wildhare was really wondering; are there any people on Magnamund that look "african"?
We really have only one clear example of this, nameley the zulu-looking warrior in MC who has caused so much controversy in this thread. The masbatés of Lissan are black, but their facial features and hairstyles seen in the Grey Star books are to my mind more akin to native americans, or possibly some north-east asian people (apart from their characteristic large bodies, of course). The vakeros (or at least Paido) is also dark-skinned, but he has blond hair. A real-world anthropologist would never identify them as having African origin.
In short: In Magnamund we can find "European" and "Asian" looking people but not, as far as I can see, "African" looking people - except, that is, for the controversial MC bhanarian/lissanian...
Of course, even with 30+ gamebooks and a number of supplements and sourcebooks, not all of Magnamund is covered. But this is the best answer I can give, anyway.
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