Woodland Ranger - New Class

[eviltb]

Thats from the 3.5 PHB (use the link I sent you ). When using Quick Shot, you get an extra attack, but then ALL attacks are reduced by -2. Example.

Al has a BAB of +11/+6/+1. He wants to attack with a bow using Quick Shot. He gets to attack 4 times but at -2 to all attacks, so his attacks for that round are +9/+9/+4/-1 (the extra +9 is his extra attack).

[Al]

I like this, but I may change the name to "Rain of Arrows" or something like that!

[eviltb]

Nice. Just checked and its actually called Rapid Shot, but nevermind

[Al]

I just looked at it as well

I wish I had this when I started making the class! Oh well, I think it is about done now, if Mearin approves the latest changes.

[Beowuuf]

You do know the online 3.5 resource had that anyway, right? Under feats i believe...

[Al]

Yeah, but you have to remember that my introduction to 3.5 was through LW, not the other way round, so feats meant very little to me until now

[Beowuuf]

aha, i see

Yeah, glance over the feats sometime, you will go 'oh, so that's it came from alot. Then curse that all the good fighter feats got the words 'with broadsword' added for the knight descritpion!

[Maerin]

Maerin laughs.

[Al]

Modified as per EvilTB and Mearin's suggestions.

[Al]

Another question - I have been rolling up my char as per the updated rules, and have come across an 'issue'

The craft skill required to make a quarterstaff is the same one requried to make a broadsword... which makes sense I guess from a rules perspecitve, but I am having a hard time seeing the skill sets required being the same.

I propose a simple rule alteration to square the circle

Special: A Forester with the skill Craft: Bowmaking can use this craft skill to make quarterstaves as well.

This represents his familiarity in working with wood based weaponry - what says you all?

[Beowuuf]

The skillset required to make a bow and fletch an arrow is entirely differnt from making a quarterstaff though

I think you have to assume he has interest in making and balancing and perfecting weapons, and picks up all specialist smithing techniques in the various skillsets to d othat. Juts don't ask him to hammer out a pot or carve you a table, as he is not truely a blacksmith nor carpenter and has not perfected the day to day matters of any of those professions - just can get buy and produce you good weapons!

[Al]

Wuufy, your post was kind of train of thought. I am not sure I understand what you mean.

Are you saying it should be assumed through a single craft skill, or that a forester should get a specialized craft skill?

[Swiftstrike]

perhaps you could have him able to make a quarterstaff but with a penalty to his craft skill, as I would think the tools for crafting a fine curved bow would be slightly different from that used on a quarterstaff.

[Beowuuf]

I also just saw your post in the lwrpgol about the split of bowmaking and so on, which is logical but derails the idea.

My point was that quarterstaff making was just as different to bowmaking as to metal weaponsmithing, so there is no reason to lump it with bowmaking just because of materials

I was merely tryign to say I could see the logic of 'weaponsmithing' touching a few disciplines - covering basic blacksmithing and joinery to make basic weapons no matter the materials. It's not as if the character is both a master blacksmith and master carpenter.

If the current craft splits for weaponmaking don't let you cover the basic weapons you want, then perhaps you can just call the craft skill 'craft weapons' - the character can make basic metal, wooden and bow weapons (no funny sword types nor crossbows but could make swords, daggers spears, maces, quarterstaffs and longbows easily enough)

I guess at some point you just have to let the player take over, and of they want to be able to craft basic weapons like quarterstaves and bows, they will use the generous skills points and class skill craft and do it themselves.

You can perhaps generalise it to 'woodsman's something' and just give a general skill bonus on any checks when utilising the forest - hence usable for creating/defeating woodland traps or being stealthy (hiding only) or climbing trees of course crafting items using the trees around.

[Maerin]

Guess I will jump into this discussion.

There are no hard and fast rules on how finely one has to define a given Craft, Profession, or Perform skill. In the specific case of the Craft skill, part of that was likely due to no one seriously expected player characters to do much actual craft work when they were designing D&D 3.x edition (hence the heavily flawed and poorly defined systems for craft work; which has continued to negatively impact prospective player character alchemists to this day). Part of this is also that different designers had different points of view on what exactly separated a "profession" from a "craft" in cases where the most linear definition of both failed in practice.

The problem is, in this case, that there is literally no "appropriate" craft skill to use for making a quarterstaff because there is literally no Craft skill check required to do so. The designers who foolishly saw fit to link item crafting time and difficulty to item/equipment cost to purchase, and then also made the quarterstaff cost zero, saw to that.

Honestly, I recommend that, unless you want to start over from scratch and redesign the Craft rules from the ground up to work properly, you not spend a lot of time trying to think around this problem. The problem does not lie in the class, it lies in other game systems that only may ever be associated with the class. Just stick with Craft (weaponsmithing) as a generalized "catch-all" and move on. No, it does not make a lick of sense. I could not agree more. But trying to make it work in the face of the rules is about as futile as trying to keep a sand castle intact in a raging storm.