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Post by Black Cat on Apr 4, 2008 12:33:45 GMT -5
My own plot is not linked to the one of Varetta. It's more... personal. And from what I have planned, the plot will end without having too much consequences on the rest of Sommerlund's history. Of course, now that I have Wildhorse in the wagon, I have modified my plans so that he can be included, but otherwise, it's more a standalone story.
The Helghast plot in Lyris needs to find its conclusion, just like Eshnar and the Plague. But does the Plague and Eshnar be linked?
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Post by Maerin on Apr 4, 2008 12:39:28 GMT -5
Since this one is in my court, I can offer thoughts on at least the "helghast plot" in Lyris, at least in its present form. I confess this is one of the primary areas where I took what had been started in the past and ended up putting a much different spin on it from that of my sage predecessors a few years ago. It is (well, was) actually something of a shell game, contrived and used to to conceal the greater plot that brought about the fall of the sages and put our good Baron in power with his Order of Free Thought a few years ago (MS 5099). I say "is", because the good Baron is still using this shell game to sustain his power structure of fear of the unknown/unknowable. There is, after all, more than one reason why an "undetectable helghast" might be undetectable...
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Post by Beowuuf on Apr 4, 2008 12:59:20 GMT -5
Aha, very clever I like it! I perosnally had an idea on how to link the blood plague and Eshnar in a way to draw a temporary close of chapter on those two events, since they were ones on Zipp had personally worked on and no one else would be continuing. I still planned on retainign their menace as a plot device for future people (or myself) as the need arose while making it 'dormant' enough to be ignoreable by current people, or even ignoreable for generations to come Whether it continues that way or something else happens is another matter...waiting to see what Zipp has to say with we've done with his plot. Or rather what I've done, since the other tow have been respectfully vague and personal about it, while I've just barged in and put my feet all over the furniture when no one was looking While Chaos creatures was a plot device I didn't like in Dragonlance (didn't like the dragons of summer flame was it?) I think the daziarn influence spillign the other way (with some interesting detritus I am sure) could be interesting. Again, not anything I would be pushing towards quickly though
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Post by Black Cat on Apr 4, 2008 15:16:20 GMT -5
While Chaos creatures was a plot device I didn't like in Dragonlance (didn't like the dragons of summer flame was it?) I think the daziarn influence spillign the other way (with some interesting detritus I am sure) could be interesting. If you remember my story in the WW when Black Cat went to the Klann Mountains in Klarnos, there's one element in it that could be useful in case you guys want to go with the Chaos creature thing...
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Post by Beowuuf on Apr 4, 2008 15:33:58 GMT -5
the stone : D
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Post by eviltb on Apr 4, 2008 15:55:43 GMT -5
- Xog re-incarnated. Is he back on his own, or is he now serving a new agenda? I would say....no idea, lol!! No, not really, I do have ideas for Xog. Originally it was gonna be eviltb that got the Doomstone, but I then changed it to Xog just cause He's there for a reason, for sure. But I dont want to give too much away just yet, as Im still working out the kinks. Lets just say lil Sadako-wanna be girls are in for a bit of a shock...
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Post by huntingmoon on Apr 4, 2008 15:58:04 GMT -5
I like the idea of the Chaos Invasion. My own line vanished a few chapters ago in somthing of a cliff hanger, I had vanished on a rouge airship over southern Magnamund. I could bend that in a few differant directions, but I would like to wait and see what is comming her before I commit to a course of action.
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Post by Bewildered Badger on Apr 4, 2008 17:11:47 GMT -5
I've been trying to think of ways to restart the WW without having to re-boot it, whilst at the same time avoiding the pitfalls of continuing it as is without several key players. I've had a long and tiring day, and my brain hurts, so I apologize in advance if this idea is full of fail.
What I suggest would be, in television terms, a spin off. How about a new storyline that fits into the established continuity, but is distant enough that new players can join in without prior knowledge. For example, suppose explorers discover a route to a previously unknown continent, many months journey from established lands. The continent is -relatively- small, about the size of Australasia. There are two or three major nation states, plus half a dozen or so minor ones, both on the mainland and numerous islands. Conflict between these states is common. Natural resources are plentiful, and there is evidence that the Ancients had numerous temples here, where many artifacts may be found. As such, the Free Nations send a small fleet to establish diplomatic relations and trade. Given the distance involved, they will be effectively cut off from events at home. Magic and flying ships allow some communication and transport if needed, but for the most part the fleet is on it's own. Meanwhile, in the ruins of Helgedad (or some other suitable location), information has been found showing that Gnaag knew of this land, and had already set in place plans for it's conquest. Hidden deep in the continents interior stands a barely completed fortress. Years of neglect have taken it's toll, it would take great effort to restore it. But deep in the caverns beneath, the Giak vats are waiting....
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Post by Samildanach on Apr 4, 2008 18:06:53 GMT -5
I myself never joined in because of both the shear weight of back material and story Agreed. It's just not possible to catch up on all that stuff. Maybe this collapse is a blessing in disguise for those (like me) who were unable to deal with the enormity of the existing West Watch.
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Post by Simey on Apr 4, 2008 20:33:14 GMT -5
Maybe this collapse is a blessing in disguise for those (like me) who were unable to deal with the enormity of the existing West Watch. Hey, hey - keep up! We've been busy establishing - albeit via a fairly circuitous route - that very little of the existing West Watch is particularly relevant to anyone wishing to join in. Beo's Story So Far tells you all you really need to know (and it's not very long) minus little things like current rulers, but for that you'd go, 'I want to go adventuring in Magador - is there a current ruler established in the WW yet?', and everyone'd go, Er, no - don't think so' and you'd be free to invent one and generally do what you want as you want to. Or something like that. Anyway, it really is very easy and not nearly as daunting as it might seem!
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Post by Beowuuf on Apr 5, 2008 0:47:05 GMT -5
Indeed, even three mentioned plotlines in the story so far... exist only because the current storylines have not reach a conclusion. As for the state of an area, the space exists to be filled in the 'starting in the WW thread. For deeper but brief entries, the Tome of the New Order needs reconstructing. Basically, in a way its the myth of the WW being so daunting that needs to be dynamited, not existing storylines. The argument for havign a common storyline to bring more people together is fine. I can see the logic. You see, that is the difference between starting afresh somewhere new and just carrying on. Sure, we might have history, but the point is its history. We don't need to known about BC's klarnoos chaos stone stuff unless it comes back for a new plot, and then hey, he'll probably exposition the plot in his first post. Meanwhile, if we start afresh, especially something really new, then we are taking away somehting that all WW people should have - a common background. You know magnamund, you can quickly check to see what is differnet, then play in the world you know as the class you want to be. If we 'start afresh' that's great for the first few people starting, but then you generate a mandatory geography and hostory that no new person, or even no returning old person, knows. They have to bone up on it all and cannot wing it as easily. There are no real ways to make mistakes - I joined before I fully knew the history, and sometimes posted not fu,ly re mebering the summaries I read. Any mistakes you turn into fun little plot jokes, thigns your characters couldn't have known - hell, even meeting someone who you later find out is dead - HELGHAST! Or, you know, the retroactively set your character in the past and time jump his story ahead to the present when its logical to do so In a way the crash is not a blessing, because the resources that make the WW easy to jump into are currently gone - the Tome and the original 'here's the rulers of the world' thread need to be rebuilt
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Post by Maerin on Apr 5, 2008 2:17:32 GMT -5
Since neither the Tome nor the 'here's the rulers of the world' thread were particularly usefully functional on the Tower, neither is a loss from that standpoint. I would say that neither lack harms our efforts right now and, honestly, makes West Watch more accessible rather than less.
As with other points that have been made already, there is such a thing as clinging too much to what is past to no purpose or benefit to the present and future. Given sufficient participation, a Tome and whatever else will essentially "build" itself over time. If not given sufficient participation, then the lack of either will never even be noticed.
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Post by Beowuuf on Apr 5, 2008 3:05:22 GMT -5
Interestingly, when trying to make sure that in all new chapters I start 'fresh',with the story, and when trying to use some exposition to remind who everyone is, I find that notion of letting alot of things stay in the past quite useful - and why I think the WW story of can be quite short and ignoreable without people having to force a whitewash.
Beowuuf meets Kollosco, or Karlnos, and it gets easier and easier to summarise the relationship as they have a history, not harder. While a plot is in flow and links are tentative, it matters more to mention a few of the subtle ideas and interconnections. Now, if Karlnos meets beowuuf, it boils down to 'hello renegade commander,' 'hello person who killed my son' and kollosco has to be descibed less and less as 'the captain who betrayed beowuuf' unless he meets with duman again, now he is just 'renegade mage who practises left and right hand magics', since the interaction of Beowuuf and Kollosco, with the two having met several times now, is very easy as normal adversaries. Instant shorthand.
I do think the Tome is still valuable, just because people didn't write in it and just because to the casual player it is ignoreable doesn't make it les valuable when the time comes to need that information. Looking through 16 chapter summaries for references to the blood plague, or the maakengorge bridge, or the chaos stone, or the night of storms is quite daunting andmight not give the correct information, whereas a paragraph or two on these things, or a particular NPC, lets us join together stories much, much easier.
If's its not thought of as important now, it won't be thought of as important later if we do have this giant story arc, and so wewill find ourselves in the same situation again - ie theres alot of history to wade through before you can intereact with, say, the Archdemon Flumnihip'poot
Also, I think the state of the world/ruler thread was good asa quick start. I remmeber surprising myself later in the WW for intelligently using Lord Giligar as the head of the High Council, forgetting I got this information while having no idea about the WW fro mthat thread.
Again, it's forgettable to people not caring - as long as you know Rimoah is dead (fro mthe quick story of...' you can just say 'the high council asked the kai to do this.' But if you have a character who needs to meet with the high council or get a personal message, that thread can be a lifesaver to quickly get on with your important story, without you sweating small details like that
Anywya, I agree that being too obsessed with the history seems to have scared off alot of people, so hopefully we can downplay its important or better yet make bitesize chunks of it very easy to find if you need them. I just think ignoring it invites utter confusion for coherence later, the backlash being everyone will then feel justified in thinking they need to know all the hostory to participate.
Wow. I apparently love to watch myself type! Sorry, as we were...
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Post by Simey on Apr 5, 2008 9:41:19 GMT -5
I won't pretend to have read a vast amount of the Tome of the New Order, but it certainly was useful to dip into every so often to remind oneself who or what something was or get clued up on something you'd happened across in someone's post.
I think having something similar in structure to the TotNO regarding nations and rulers would be helpful too. The thread that dealt with this in the TotS WW was pretty messy (containing a lengthy argument about who was in charge of the Sages or something like that, I think), but if a writer wanted to take their character to Anari, for example, and could click on Anari and find an entry reading, There have been no developments made to Anari in the West Watch, it'd be an easy way of establishing that they're free to do what they want rather than asking all and sundry whether Anari has an established ruler, etc.
Basically, I'd agree that the WW past shouldn't be seen as too important unless you want it to be. If a writer wants to deliberately write a story that makes no reference to anyone else's story or characters then that should be perfectly possible. If, however, a writer wants to connect to WW history a little then he ought to have handy little quick-reference tools like the TotNO to hand to help him do so.
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Post by zipp on Apr 7, 2008 17:41:01 GMT -5
My own plot is not linked to the one of Varetta. It's more... personal. And from what I have planned, the plot will end without having too much consequences on the rest of Sommerlund's history. Of course, now that I have Wildhorse in the wagon, I have modified my plans so that he can be included, but otherwise, it's more a standalone story. The Helghast plot in Lyris needs to find its conclusion, just like Eshnar and the Plague. But does the Plague and Eshnar be linked? Eshnar does not neccesarily have to be linked with the Plague, but I do think Beo and Simey were heading in that direction, yes. If I rejoin, I'll be working towards a conclusion of the Plague storyline.
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