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Post by crysis on Mar 17, 2010 18:50:27 GMT -5
It might have been me- I slightly remember this discussion. So, Chris777, I'm here for a "few words". ;D EDIT- Curious to see where this is going... Izziel if it was you than this is what I want to say. what is wrong about asking an instructor what needs to be done to reach a goal? What is wrong about asking a sensai what standards must be met to achieve a black belt? I am in no way suggesting that a student should demand a black belt or arrogantly say to the sensai why he hasn't yet given the student a black belt, what I am saying is a student should ask the sensai what his standards for blackbelt are, what the student needs to do to meet those standards and how the student can go about meeting those standards. The same way a student in school who wants to get a good grade in a class should talk to the teacher about it. I'm just curious Chris... why bring up this old argument? Are you curious because you want to know whether or not you should ask your "Sensei" about the black belt? Or are you trying to assert your belief that it's okay to ask a Sensei about same? |
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Post by Ghost Bear on Mar 17, 2010 18:55:49 GMT -5
Damn. There goes my joke about learning to spell 'sensei' first.
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Post by Izziel Darkblade on Mar 18, 2010 17:34:51 GMT -5
It might have been me- I slightly remember this discussion. So, Chris777, I'm here for a "few words". ;D EDIT- Curious to see where this is going... Izziel if it was you than this is what I want to say. what is wrong about asking an instructor what needs to be done to reach a goal? What is wrong about asking a sensai what standards must be met to achieve a black belt? I am in no way suggesting that a student should demand a black belt or arrogantly say to the sensai why he hasn't yet given the student a black belt, what I am saying is a student should ask the sensai what his standards for blackbelt are, what the student needs to do to meet those standards and how the student can go about meeting those standards. The same way a student in school who wants to get a good grade in a class should talk to the teacher about it. Ok... Here's my answer, short and blunt: if you're really, really serious about your training, you should focus on it, exclusively. What I mean is, if you're an 8th Kyu student, then BE THE BEST 8th Kyu student you can possibly be, and don't ever think about anything else. Ever. In the right time, your sensei SHOULD be aware of your developments, and instruct you to take a "test" (be it an exam so you can "up" your learning level or just learning something more intricate at your own level). But don't worry about it, just keep on working TO BE THE BEST 8th Kyu student you can be. It´s absolutely vital that you have a SERIOUS person as Sensei, though. Is yours one of those? And like Mr. Miyagi once said so well, belts are for holding your pants, really: martial arts is much more than achieve what everyone can see and admire (a certain degree, for example); it's really about "developing your inner self, making you better as an individual", as you can read on so many dojo panflets. Fail to understand this, and you'll never be a martial artist, no matter how many flips and kicks you can do, since you'll never get the "full picture".  Just take from this what you want Chris, but this humble opinion comes from a person who was a Wado-Ryu Karate-do student for almost 10 years, entered 3 National Championships (Kata singles competition - coming in 8th, 2nd and 1st in 1988, 1989 and 1990), and is nowadays a "50% self-taught" Iaido student; i'm not bragging or anything (there's no reason to it, anyways ;D), but i'm mentioning it because i think it might help you understand my approach. Because it worked and it works for me. Peace, Chris (and sorry my rusty english- i'm really tired today  ) |
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Post by crysis on Mar 18, 2010 22:07:25 GMT -5
Wise Fox AKA Darkblade has said it really well, even in rusty English. I concur completely that the point of martial arts isn't the color of the belt you wear but rather how much the practice means to you. It's also not about being able to beat someone up. In fact, often martial arts doesn't even give you that ability, not as much as some people think it does. Martial Arts is about discipline and training your mind and body to be focused and to endure rigorous practice and "stillness."
There is, however, one reason why it can sometimes be better to get a higher belt. Some martial arts classes are taught to specific belt levels and staying too long with one level can be detrimental to your growth in the art. However, a good sensei will let his or her students know when they need to move on to the next level. It is not something that you will have to ask them about.
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Post by eviltb on Mar 21, 2010 5:15:34 GMT -5
good points made above. I concur with what crysis said about styles "rushing" you through belts. From my own personal experience, a blackbelt in karate will most of the time lose to a yellow belt wing chun student. I guess its the difference between japanese and chinese styles. The Jap styles are too rigid for my liking, whereas kungfu just lets you "flow". Ive been an orange belt in southern-style Dragon for around 4 years now. Before that I went from white> yellow> orange in 2 years, give or take. If you're looking to just bust through the belts, you're not in martial arts for the right reasons.
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Post by chris777 on Mar 30, 2010 14:16:57 GMT -5
Izziel if it was you than this is what I want to say. what is wrong about asking an instructor what needs to be done to reach a goal? What is wrong about asking a sensai what standards must be met to achieve a black belt? I am in no way suggesting that a student should demand a black belt or arrogantly say to the sensai why he hasn't yet given the student a black belt, what I am saying is a student should ask the sensai what his standards for blackbelt are, what the student needs to do to meet those standards and how the student can go about meeting those standards. The same way a student in school who wants to get a good grade in a class should talk to the teacher about it. Ok... Here's my answer, short and blunt: if you're really, really serious about your training, you should focus on it, exclusively. What I mean is, if you're an 8th Kyu student, then BE THE BEST 8th Kyu student you can possibly be, and don't ever think about anything else. Ever. In the right time, your sensei SHOULD be aware of your developments, and instruct you to take a "test" (be it an exam so you can "up" your learning level or just learning something more intricate at your own level). But don't worry about it, just keep on working TO BE THE BEST 8th Kyu student you can be. It´s absolutely vital that you have a SERIOUS person as Sensei, though. Is yours one of those? And like Mr. Miyagi once said so well, belts are for holding your pants, really: martial arts is much more than achieve what everyone can see and admire (a certain degree, for example); it's really about "developing your inner self, making you better as an individual", as you can read on so many dojo panflets. Fail to understand this, and you'll never be a martial artist, no matter how many flips and kicks you can do, since you'll never get the "full picture". Just take from this what you want Chris, but this humble opinion comes from a person who was a Wado-Ryu Karate-do student for almost 10 years, entered 3 National Championships (Kata singles competition - coming in 8th, 2nd and 1st in 1988, 1989 and 1990), and is nowadays a "50% self-taught" Iaido student; i'm not bragging or anything (there's no reason to it, anyways ;D), but i'm mentioning it because i think it might help you understand my approach. Because it worked and it works for me. Peace, Chris (and sorry my rusty english- i'm really tired today ) Good points. However, each instructor runs their own system differently. Some instructors will tell you when to test whereas other instructors might just hold tests every few months and it is up to the student to sign up for the test for their next belt at their own descretion, although whether or not they pass is a different matter. In the latter case, it is up to you to decide when you're ready to test for the next belt and not your sensai. Although just because you think you're ready for the next belt doesn't mean you ARE ready for the next belt, you could take the test and fail. As it is though, each instructor runs their own system and a student should find out how his or her particular instructor runs their system. All that a blackbelt really means is that in some instructor's opinion, you've reached a certain degree of proficiency, or in your own opinion. To get a black belt, all it really takes is a trip to your local martial arts supply store and $5.00 to buy the belt, although I would much rather get a black belt from a good instructor, that way it would mean much more, to me at least. |
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Post by chris777 on Mar 30, 2010 14:21:56 GMT -5
good points made above. I concur with what crysis said about styles "rushing" you through belts. From my own personal experience, a blackbelt in karate will most of the time lose to a yellow belt wing chun student. I guess its the difference between japanese and chinese styles. The Jap styles are too rigid for my liking, whereas kungfu just lets you "flow". Ive been an orange belt in southern-style Dragon for around 4 years now. Before that I went from white> yellow> orange in 2 years, give or take. If you're looking to just bust through the belts, you're not in martial arts for the right reasons. A blackbelt in karate will lose to a yellow belt in wing chun if the fight goes according to the wing chun rules. That is why the Gracies have been so successful with their Gracie Jiu Jitsu, the fight always goes according to their rules, for instance, Rorion Gracie once turned down a challenge from a kickboxer to fight according to kickboxing rules because he knew he would lose, that is not his style. If fought by the Gracie rules, however, the kickboxer would lose. So a karate person would lose against a wing chun person if the fight went according to wing chun rules, if the fight went according to karate rules, however, the wing chun person would lose. Now, as to which style is the most "street effective," that would depend on the person not the style. If a wing chun person beats a karate person in a streetfight it would be because that particular wing chun person was a better fighter, not because wing chun is more "street effective." The wing chun person might lose in a streetfight against another karate person who is better. |
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Post by chris777 on Mar 30, 2010 14:25:15 GMT -5
There is, however, one reason why it can sometimes be better to get a higher belt. Some martial arts classes are taught to specific belt levels and staying too long with one level can be detrimental to your growth in the art. However, a good sensei will let his or her students know when they need to move on to the next level. It is not something that you will have to ask them about. Well yes, the same way it makes sense not to stay in the same grade in school all the time. In most cases a person goes up a grade once a year, to stay forever in the 3rd grade would mean you would never progress. Now, as for a sensei letting you know when to move to the next belt level, that would depend on the sensae, some senseis hold tests every few months and let the students sign up at their own descretion, although whether or not a student passes is a different story. |
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Post by zipp on Mar 30, 2010 20:29:54 GMT -5
Actually, the only reason a person in third grade forever would never progress is because American systems are based around standardized testings. Using the IE system, for instance, you would be doing a different research project each year of Third Grade and, in many ways, would learn more than a Highschooler would in the standardized system.
Just a little tangent from me.
Anyway, I think you're agreeing with me.
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