|
Post by Al on May 31, 2008 9:39:40 GMT -5
Hi Wuufy, I see where my point got lost, but my point is that it does not marginalize ability scores, rather it reflects a more realistic development of human existence than just rolling off of the scores. The fundamental difference is that their is a difference in probabilities, and that, of course, is a very subjective area.
As for how I interpret the scores... I do not know. I think that the hardest one is Charasma. I forget where I saw this, but the point was made how can someone RP a char with a higher char score than the player would have? I thought that was a very good point. I think the way I interpret the scores is that the average score is just that, what a 'normal' person would have. I think that an 18 or a 3 would be rolled every 216 times. If an average high school has 1000 students, each with 6 stats, that means over 36 people would have an ability score of 18 or 3. Not that rare, is it? It means that their would probably be 18 18s, and 18 3s. A 3 strength would be the sickly kid, an 18 int would be the maths genius and so forth. I do not think the score abilities really allows characters to be at the highest end of human achievement - just really good average people. I think it is NPCs who represent the high end of human achievement.
|
|
|
Post by Beowuuf on May 31, 2008 10:22:39 GMT -5
Well, in a highschool of 1000 people, you usually do find someone who is pretty awesome, amazingly strong, etc, but I see your point - then again, there are scores above and below the 3 - 18 range which would take into account the person you will rarely if ever meet who is insanely intelligent, intuitive, charismatic, etc (or lacking in such things). The 3-18 reflect the likely score of the shmo who is going to be an adventurer I guess, but include those who would be deemed exceptional normally.
For charisma, I think that it is not up to the PC to play charismatic, it is also up to the other players and GM to have reactions based as that. Charisma isn't just how pleasant you are to talk to/look at or how you interract with people, it's also what you get away with. For example, Cat has a high charisma. For my end, I tried to make him friendly (he didn't have a bad word for anyone) and helpful (he actually did try to do things for other people) and concerned (he did actually care about other people). However, Cat was just plain insane aswell.
It was up to the rest of you to shake your collective heads but see the good in Cat rather than want to dump him in the nearest lakde and put up with him despite yourselves. If Cat had a low charisma, I would have played him about the same (but maybe much more self obsessed and whiny if it was a very low charisma or lower wisdom) which would have more than justified deveryone yelling him out constantly, him feeling liek a Wesley character, and me having the arc of Cat needing to grow up and tone it down. With a high charisma though, I didn't feel threatened to have to make him very, very likeable, I just had to make sure that he was never going to be instantly unlikeable.
I think the fact remains in normal life it is a very indefinable thing sometimes that separates people you can't stand or don't give the benefit of the doubt to, and people you do. People can be friendly, people can be engaging, people can be intense, people can be beautiful, but at the end of the day it's still sometimes hard to say why with one person it's captivating, while with another person they still jsut irritate you or put you off.
Funnily, Al had a high charisma in Strands of Fate, and I think that while you playued him well, there was a strong reasons for him to be distrusted by the law abiders, and so he was met with some hostility. However, I think Berkos /Grolam (or maybe Moon Owl) explicitly said that becuase of your charisma score, they had their characters trust you, in so far as their characters would let them, inspite of themselves at various times. So actually the characters played to your charisma score, whereas if you simply played him the same but had an average charsma score, you might have found the distrust the Cap'n Al name generated would have seen hostile interractiosn for much longer.
|
|
|
Post by Al on May 31, 2008 10:43:40 GMT -5
That is a good point about charisma, that it is the attribute that others play to, not the player. I would not have thought to do that - I generally do not look at other's stats and non-essential information so that I can avoid inadvertent metagaming.
|
|
|
Post by Beowuuf on May 31, 2008 10:55:40 GMT -5
Just a thought - if you play a moody, silent character who gives little hooks to the other players, or an aragorn like ranger who looks rumpled, then it's up to the other PCs to decided if this still makes him trusted and likeable or not! I guess with everything, you can argue the player still has to do their share. another reason for me asking about basic attributes, to people look or ask the GM for guiddance, or is it up to the player to play the character with this in mind. Or are attributes ignored for PC to PC interraction? Balgin already played Adric well enough that his lower Charisma played out, when the character himself was not unlikeable, it was simply that his brusque attitude meant people gave him less benefit of the doubt and were more likely to fall out with him! Of course, getting to know him people like Moon Owl then reacted dto the person not the stat, which is how it should be - stats like wisdom and charisa seem to be a measure for instantaneous situations rather than long term situation.
|
|
|
Post by Al on May 31, 2008 11:16:40 GMT -5
I have never really given cha much of a though other than to how it impacts upon certain skills - I usually have a good idea of the type of char I want to play when I create the char, not the other way round. I am not sure, is that a good thing or not? I know what skills I value for the char and what I think I can 'slide' with.
|
|
|
Post by Beowuuf on May 31, 2008 11:30:34 GMT -5
I try to do both, either let the dice roll give my imagination a jump, or sometimes will have a character idea then see if the dice rolls force me to adjust it, or as you say if I can slide with it. Though you still have to obey the law of ability averages i feel, plus now you need to make sure the skills you choose reflect what you think is happening. Hence originally I imagined Cat would have been an active kid in the past, and I imagined a back story element of him 'defeating' a Giak by luring it to chase after him instead of focusing o nthe group he was with, then throwing stones at it form a tree until help came. A just above average dexterity and low strength half scuppered that, though Zipp let me add more points as the total ability points were low so his higher dexterity came back to play.
It still meant Cat ended up with a low strength, so combined with me needing to spend skill points on his intelligence based abilities, it knocked his athletics and climbing for six. Not a great loss, but still a lesson in not overhtinking a character before he's finalised I guess!
I already rolled a Kai for Zipp's game just for fun, using the old 3d6 only method (in order too!), and letting that dictate the sort of character formed. Still not quite sure how to interpret his strength score yet, but the rest I'm happy with - though this time based on the character the other stats hunted at, I decided to put ranks in to offset some strength penalties
|
|
|
Post by Al on May 31, 2008 11:35:19 GMT -5
Zipp's game?
|
|
|
Post by Beowuuf on May 31, 2008 11:44:48 GMT -5
The eventual return of the Strands of Fate! I've not played a Kai before, and infact I've not looked deeply into the class because the sheer weight of abilities made my head swim, so it required me to read into it to be happier!
Whereas the BCS, or a subtle variant of it, I already am familiar with so it doesn't need as much prep time! That might change it a more severe variant of the BCS is wanted, I just wanted to ensure a less institutional focus to learning, but otherwise keep the BCS class the same.
|
|
|
Post by Al on May 31, 2008 13:00:45 GMT -5
The eventual return of the Strands of Fate! I've not played a Kai before, and infact I've not looked deeply into the class because the sheer weight of abilities made my head swim, so it required me to read into it to be happier! Oh! I am not sure what I would like to play for that one - I have done Gunner, I have done Buccaneer and will be doing ranger (another rogue type char), I have never played any of the other ones in the RPG. I am not sure what I would play. I am not a big fan of playing magic users, just too much going on with all of thier spells, and the Kai class I really do not like - I think it is far too powerful a class hands down. In keeping with the theme of this thread, though, the more I think about it, the more I think it is a good idea to be aware of the other char's ability scores. I will definately be trying to react to other char's cha in the future.
|
|