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Post by Simey on May 8, 2008 15:30:33 GMT -5
Nah...he had the Magnamund version of frog legs...Ciquali legs...after all, they ate poor Sebb Jarel... Yikes! If he ate their legs, and they ate Sebb Jarel....maybe Lone Wolf ate Sebb Jarel!
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Post by Samildanach on May 11, 2008 21:06:32 GMT -5
Since non-Kai evidently have little idea of what Kai Disciplines are or how they work... I am not certain what your basis might be for this inference, even putting aside the fact it does not address the point I made previously about signs and evidence of Kai potential. That the actual mechanics, techniques, and usage of Kai disciplines is a secret is understood (and indicated as such in, among other locations, the Story So Far section of Flight from the Dark. That that translates into some ubiquitous and comprehensive secret...there seems little enough evidence to support that notion. The closest thing I can find to evidence either way is in Magnamund Companion: "Children in the households of Knights of the Realm who were seen to possess dormant Kai Disciplines were sent to the monastery to receive special training." (page 42, MC) and "The skills by which they had first come to the attention of their liege-lords..." (same citation). That makes no definite statement to the effect that a Kai is needed to recognize another potential Kai (in fact, it implies it does not, because the context of "liege-lord" in that section fairly specifically refers to the Knights of the Realm) and it is not indicated that Kai responsibilities (whether Kai Lord or Master) included traveling through Sommerlund to find new Kai. I suppose it might be argued that the lack of a definitive statement that a Kai is not required might be taken as evidence that one must therefore required...but that obviously is not logical and might be considered rather unreasonable as well. I bow to the results of your superior effort in bothering to look at the Companion. Plus there is always the possibility that other Kai escaped the destruction of the Monastery. Obviously Fehmarn is a big event and all, however, I'm sure some Kai were on quests that were too important to return for the feast. It is feasible that some escaped the agents of Zagarna. I've wondered about that myself. Out of the hundreds of Kai, Lone Wolf was the only one who escaped? No-one else went for a walk to ease their insomnia, or turned up late, or was stuck in the Darklands on a mission? Not one Kai managed to stagger from the wreckage of the monastery in all the confusion? Still, Lone Wolf is always referred to as the last of the Kai so, logic or not, it's safe to assume that the canon answer is no, no other Kai survived. Yeah I guess so. But still, even if Lone Wolf did die I don't think the Kai would become extinct. There are still hundreds of years of Kai instinct in Sommlending blood. The Kai would come again. That's a fair point. Sun Eagle discovered the Disciplines by himself, so sooner or later or someone else would have done the same. It may have taken a different form though; it's entirely possible that the name 'Kai' wouldn't crop up at all. If Lone Wolf were killed, established Kai lore would die with him, and who knows how long it might take for someone else to spontaneously develop their innate skills? After all, Sun Eagle wasn't necessarily the first person to have Kai potential, just the first to actively try and develop it. It could be centuries before another such person comes along, and in that time, if Lone Wolf is dead, all/most knowledge of the Kai's existence and nature could have passed away. In which case, we may have ended up with somewhat different skills, developed and employed in a different ways, under a different name.
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Post by snowshadow on Aug 1, 2008 6:12:00 GMT -5
Hi. Don't know if you have read Legends of Lone Wolf but the innkeeper at the North Star Tavern, Ragadorn, was an ex-Kai monk called Red Dawn. Seem to remember in the novels he helped LW with teaching the new Kai, until I think he got killed.
Anyway Pirsi or Cetza... I vote Cetza. LW gets a chance to showboat with Sommerswerd in a big battle. I don't normally have Invisibility anyway and feel bad about killing Halgar, would be nice if I could use Weaponmastery with that whip! (I need Lore Circles Fire and Solaris CS bonus for Kimah and normally pick up Pathsmanship - after all I am a Pathfinder).
I feel later books, such as 20 tell me I should have gone to Pirsi and had Sebb guide me though annoyingly 15 assumes I met Prarg when I didn't rush into battle.
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Post by Beowuuf on Aug 1, 2008 7:16:47 GMT -5
Actually, I think he was called Cloud Maker (Red Dawn was someone else I think) and yes, he gots himself killed by, sadly, Carag
There is definitely a wobbly continuity going on, personally I would have assumed any choice negates continuity - you only definitely know banedon from book 5, you only definitely know paido not sebb, etc
Ah well! We shall see if this is tweaked later
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Post by wildhorse on Aug 1, 2008 10:20:19 GMT -5
Possible spoilers below...
Red Dawn is the head cook of the First Order, as appeared in the Legends, "Eclipse of the Kai".
The innkeeper of the North Star Tavern, Cloud-Maker, is an ex-Kai Lord. But as mentioned later in the book, he admitted that he himself never learnt much of the mental skills.
As for his death, it wasn't really clear if Carag killed him. It was just written that he fell into a pool of his own blood, pierced by a Giak blade. In fact, Carag did feel a bit of remorse in seeing the corpse of Cloud Maker later on.
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Post by snowshadow on Aug 4, 2008 4:58:43 GMT -5
Spoliers
Teach me for trying to do it from memory and not check my facts first! Thanks for the enlightenment. I agree with you Beowulf you only definately know charatcers such as Banedon after book 5. BUT notice at the start of book 7, who is your companion flying to Kazan Oud? It's Paido yet book 10 (see nicely brought the subject back to what I'm supposed to be going on about) sorry book 10 asks only if you have visited the Danarg where you would also know him if you had only visited castle Death! Any votes for Isle of Ghosts? I kinda like the idea of being the one who gets rid of Roark but it's nice to fight his ghost in 18 if you weren't the one to get rid of him the first time.
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Post by Redbeard on Aug 17, 2008 8:19:30 GMT -5
For me...my "canon" route is to fight Baron Shinzar at the Battle of Cetza, then purposely drop myself into the river to get washed up on the Isle of Ghosts, where I can then take on Demonlord Tagazin and Roark. Must have watched too much superheroes movies. But if I may put in my "Legends" view....Lone Wolf will have chosen the Pirsi route. Although Kai Lords are deadly warriors, but at this point of time, he is the last one left. And furthermore, he is on a mission to retrieve the Lorestones from Torgar. Going into battle at Cetza presents certain risks of dying in combat, despite his quite considerable skills and the reputation of being the "Saviour of Tahou". For practical and reasonable chances of success, he will need to rely on stealth and common sense to get to Torgar, and therefore, he has to seek out Sebb Jarel. I agree. I'm not that fond of combat, but I love showing off the Sommerswerd. I originally only used the Sommerswerd when the books told me to do that, since having it all the time made most fights too easy. That changed when I began playing the Grandmaster series though who are next to impossible without having the proper stuff from the earlier books and using the Sommerswerd all the time.
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Post by Beowuuf on Aug 17, 2008 12:35:11 GMT -5
A run through recently had me pulling it out only when the situation was 'dire' - so just like LW would swing it out to chop a solid beam, I'd only unsheathe it when fighting a mounted foe, powerful, etc - for normal foes it was spear
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Post by Simey on Aug 17, 2008 15:00:47 GMT -5
A run through recently had me pulling it out only when the situation was 'dire' - so just like LW would swing it out to chop a solid beam, I'd only unsheathe it when fighting a mounted foe, powerful, etc - for normal foes it was spear Ah, but do you count it as a Weapon and therefore deny yourself a bow, or do you consider it only a Special Item that takes up no slots anywhere else on your sheet?
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Post by Beowuuf on Aug 17, 2008 15:15:41 GMT -5
special item, as in it's strapped somewhere not at LW's hip
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Post by zorkaan on Nov 15, 2008 13:13:26 GMT -5
We can also add to the problem a third fact:
In the Isle of the Ghosts, Lone Wolf meets Roark and his secret master, Tagazin. During the battle Roark is killed (by Lone Wolf or by the Cenerians Ghosts). In "Dawn of the Dragons", when Lone Wolf arrives in Amory, he is attacked by the ghost of Roark... So may be the Isle of Ghost is also the real route? I cannot vote...
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Post by Black Cat on Nov 17, 2008 12:55:53 GMT -5
IMO, Roark is killed wether LW visits or not the Isle of Ghosts.
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Post by zorkaan on Nov 17, 2008 13:12:34 GMT -5
You're right... We are not told in the book that Roark has been killed on the Isle of Ghosts, just that he is dead. Nevertheless I prefer in book 10 the way fighting Tagazin, to play the revenge in book 17!
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Post by jan on Jan 12, 2009 6:56:22 GMT -5
I voted for Pirsi.
Firstly, it is more natural from my perspective - I was always more a "ranger" or "scout" character in games (hiding in forests, trying to avoid large battles, preferring bow to sword, to see but remain unseen, etc.) than a "fighter" type. I was always deeply impressed by Tolkien's Rangers of the North and especially Rangers of the Ithilien (although, obviously, they did a lot of fighting with swords, too).
And secondly, I think it's more natural for LW. He has to concentrate on his Quest, and he cannot afford being coincidentally killed in a battle (although THIS is NOT A battle, this one is pretty important, I know, I know, but still, it's just a battle). After all, he is not Druss the Legend, but the Kai knight.
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Post by Samildanach on Feb 8, 2009 6:13:55 GMT -5
That's true, but pitched battles are actually a part of the Kai way. The Kai Warmarn is sent into the Sommlending army to learn how to command troops, and in one of the New Order books (I forget which) we see Lone Wolf leading a small army of Kai into battle.
I certainly agree that when Lone Wolf is the only Kai and on a mission of vital importance, it makes since to avoid situations like Cetza. I'm just saying it's not entirely unprecendented for him to go there.
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